[OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] collective and derived work - a real world example

Chris Fleming me at chrisfleming.org
Wed Jul 4 11:47:16 BST 2007


Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> Peter Miller wrote:
>
>   
>> [...]
>> The resulting work will therefore consist of OSM elements (creative commons)
>> and scheduled transport movements (copyright) which are used to create a
>> movie (creative commons).
>>     
>
> IAobviouslyNAL but, sadly, I don't think CC-SA allows you to do that.  
> I'm on deadline with the day job atm but will post more at the weekend  
> as to why not.
>
> In short, collective works (IMO) consist of "separate and independent  
> works", e.g. encyclopaedia articles. Your movie is one, merged work.  
> That's a derivative work. (In fact, CC-SA expressly cites "a work  
> based upon the Work or upon the Work and other pre-existing works,  
> such as a... motion picture version". Yay - it's OSM: The Movie.)
>   
I'll should give you until the weekend to respond... but I'm reading the 
the CC license once again. I agree that what is produced by Peter would 
be a Derived work rather than a Collective work, but once again I think 
that we are okay here....

My "not a layer" interpretation of this is that Peter wants to create a 
Derived work which will be based on:
  1. the OSM elements which require this Derived work to be license 
under CC-SA.
  2. the "copyrighted" transport movements, in this case the copyright 
holders have allowed the movement data to be used in such a way and for 
the final work to be licensed as CC-SA?

In this case I can't see anything in the license that would not permit 
the movie to be created. From an OSM point of view there is no need to 
provide the source materials only to ensure that the license obligations 
are upheld in the derived version.

The TV example that Peter gave IMHO I agree that this would be a 
Collective Works, with the TV program showing the CC-SA movie as part of 
the whole. If music is played on top of the movie, this does get 
complicated. the license makes direct reference to what happens if the 
audio is CC-SA: "For the avoidance of doubt, where the Work is a musical 
composition or sound recording, the synchronization of the Work in 
timed-relation with a moving image ("synching") will be considered a 
Derivative Work for the purpose of this License"

but I think that we can apply this same logic, "if the music is combined 
in a in timed-relation with a moving image ("synching")" then the final 
music+movie is a derived work,  if the music is incidental then it's 
still a collective work. I accept that there is a big grey area here, I 
guess the factor here is if the music could be substituted for another 
piece then we're still in collective works category.

>> I will need to get this use checked legally before proceeding, but I would
>> first like confirmation from the community that it meets the spirit of the
>> project.
>>     
>
> Heh, I think it's a great idea, but then I'd prefer it if it were all  
> public domain anyway. :)
>
> Getting a legal view would be very, very useful.
>   

I personally think that this is fine, and think that the license if 
fairly clear with respect to creating the movie. But agree that a legal 
view would be very useful.

Cheers
Chris

PS: Full CC-SA Definitions of collective and Derivative works below...

   1. *"Collective Work"* means a work, such as a periodical issue,
      anthology or encyclopedia, in which the Work in its entirety in
      unmodified form, along with a number of other contributions,
      constituting separate and independent works in themselves, are
      assembled into a collective whole. A work that constitutes a
      Collective Work will not be considered a Derivative Work (as
      defined below) for the purposes of this License.
   2. *"Derivative Work"* means a work based upon the Work or upon the
      Work and other pre-existing works, such as a translation, musical
      arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization, motion picture
      version, sound recording, art reproduction, abridgment,
      condensation, or any other form in which the Work may be recast,
      transformed, or adapted, except that a work that constitutes a
      Collective Work will not be considered a Derivative Work for the
      purpose of this License. For the avoidance of doubt, where the
      Work is a musical composition or sound recording, the
      synchronization of the Work in timed-relation with a moving image
      ("synching") will be considered a Derivative Work for the purpose
      of this License.

-- 
http://www.chrisfleming.org/





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