[OSM-legal-talk] Paid services from OSM

Wed Oct 8 21:03:49 BST 2008

Peter,

This was an interesting e-mail. However, I have some questions about
what would constitue an "independent and distinct dataset". Consider
the following scenario:

You take OSM data and modify the feature geometries using data you
collected in the field. You then take this feature geometry and import
it into your GIS system. There you add feature attributes (similar to
OSM tags) based on your field mapping. (For example: You add Road
Speed Limit attributes to all of the road segments in the dataset).

What are you required to release? Just the feature geomtries? Or do
you have to release all of the feature attributes as well? What if you
keep the road speed limits in a separate table in your GIS and just
refernece a feature geometry ID? What if the original OSM data
contained a tag for speed limit data, but your speed limit data is
more up-to-date or accurate? Do any of these things make a difference?

I am curious about these questions.

Landon

On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 8:54 AM, SteveC <steve at asklater.com> wrote:
> Fantastic Peter, can't wait for your input.
>
> Best
>
> Steve
>
> On 27 Sep 2008, at 07:12, Peter Miller wrote:
>
>>
>> Let me answer from the perspective of the new licence that is in
>> preparation.
>>
>> My company intends to charge for services using OSM data, not traffic
>> related, but our situations are similar from a legal perspective.
>>
>> We are currently reviewing the new proposed OSM licence in draft
>> form and my
>> company has just commissioned legal advice on this in order to
>> confirm that
>> it is suitable for our business. We will also provide input into the
>> drafting process as necessary.
>>
>> My understanding of the new licence is as follows:
>>
>> The OSM Database will be available on a share-alike by attribution
>> licence.
>>
>> Any 'Derivative Work' created from the OSM Database will also need
>> to be
>> made available for free on a similar 'share-alike by attribution'
>> licence
>> (so for example if you spot a problem in the OSM database and change
>> it
>> internally in your copy of the DB then this is a Derivative Work and
>> as soon
>> as you make services or products using this data available to the
>> public
>> then you have to make the Derivative DB available to the public in a
>> accessible way.
>>
>> If however you create a 'Collective Database' consisting of the
>> unaltered
>> OSM Database and one of more other independent and distinct datasets
>> then
>> you do not have to publish the integrated dataset (but you still do
>> have to
>> publish any changes you make to the OSM component, the 'derivative
>> datasbase') and you have to acknowledge the source of the OSM
>> component.
>>
>> Ok, so you should be able to import the OSM dataset, change it,
>> publish it
>> as share-alike, but you should then be able to merge it with other
>> datasets,
>> possibly containing your traffic data (assuming that this speed data
>> constitutes an 'independent and distinct dataset) and you are set up
>> with
>> the data for your service.
>>
>> Now you can put your paid-for service on top of this. My
>> understanding is
>> that this is entirely ok and you can charge whatever people will pay
>> and put
>> it behind fire-walls and passwords as much as you like. You are
>> charging for
>> the processing and the service, not the data and you are making the
>> OSM
>> component of your data available FOC using a suitable SA licence.
>>
>> It is also my understanding that that any maps or visualisations or
>> analysis
>> generated from this dataset using this new licence can be
>> copyrighted, this
>> means that you can produce software or services to produce beautiful
>> rendering of the OSM data together with other data and you can
>> protect this
>> work and possibly try to sell it.
>>
>> There is a 'but' here, and it is a big but. It is this one; since
>> the same
>> OSM data that you are using is also available to people offering free
>> services and given that the OSM community if very dynamic and clever
>> then
>> you are going to be competing with 'free', so your product/service had
>> better be good enough, if not then you are going to get trampled, or
>> worse
>> just ignored!
>>
>> In summary, I think this licence will be very good for the project
>> for a
>> number of reasons.
>>
>> 1) It gives much stronger protection to the OSM database and ensures
>> that
>> additions are published in a format that will be available and
>> useable by
>> the wider community.
>>
>> 2) It clarifies the rules around combining OSM data with other
>> datasets,
>> some of which have different licence terms.
>>
>> 3) It creates a much clearer situation for people wishing to use OSM
>> data
>> for commercial services. These commercial users should then become
>> strong
>> supporters of the project itself with all sorts of potential
>> benefits to the
>> OSM.
>>
>> I should be more informed by the end of next week when we have had
>> some
>> answers from the lawyer and I should then be able to help bring the
>> new
>> licence to a successful conclusion.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter Miller
>> CEO, Ito World Ltd
>> http://www.itoworld.com
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: legal-talk-bounces at openstreetmap.org [mailto:legal-talk-
>>> bounces at openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of legal-talk-
>>> request at openstreetmap.org
>>> Sent: 27 September 2008 12:00
>>> To: legal-talk at openstreetmap.org
>>> Subject: [Spam] legal-talk Digest, Vol 25, Issue 24
>>>
>>> Send legal-talk mailing list submissions to
>>>      legal-talk at openstreetmap.org
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>      legal-talk-request at openstreetmap.org
>>>
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>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of legal-talk digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>   1. Re: [OSM-dev] Paid services from OSM (Iv?n S?nchez Ortega)
>>>   2. Re: [OSM-dev] Paid services from OSM (Frederik Ramm)
>>>   3. Re: [OSM-dev] Paid services from OSM (Iv?n S?nchez Ortega)
>>>   4. Re: [OSM-dev] Paid services from OSM (Frederik Ramm)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 17:14:49 +0200
>>> From: Iv?n S?nchez Ortega <ivan at sanchezortega.es>
>>> Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-dev] Paid services from OSM
>>> To: legal-talk at openstreetmap.org
>>> Cc: dev at openstreetmap.org, Julison <julisonbr at gmail.com>
>>> Message-ID: <200809261714.52366.ivan at sanchezortega.es>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>> El Viernes, 26 de Septiembre de 2008, Julison escribi?:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I'm not sure it this list is the correct place to post that
>>>> question,
>>> but
>>>> there it goes:
>>>
>>> No - the correct list is legal-talk, so please follow up the
>>> conversation
>>> there.
>>>
>>>> I'm developing a traffic info service as a layer into OpenStreetMap,
>>>> primarily for Sao Paulo, Brazil.. I'm in a very beginning in that
>>> project.
>>> [...]
>>>> My question is: Can I legally charge a service that it will run
>>>> over a
>>>> OpenSource (and free) service, if I provide extras info that doesn't
>>> exist
>>>> in OpenStreetMaps?
>>>
>>> Short answer: yes.
>>>
>>>
>>> Long answer: The majority of license-aware OSM users do believe
>>> that, as
>>> long
>>> as you keep the information layers separate, the attribution of both
>>> layers
>>> separate, and a normal user can tell apart which is which, putting
>>> several
>>> layers together is not considered a derivative work but a
>>> collaborative
>>> work,
>>> and the CC-by-sa license does not have to be enforced to turn the
>>> other
>>> layers into CC-bt-sa -covered material.
>>>
>>> Even if the CC-by-sa license would ever "contaminate" your traffic
>>> and
>>> routing
>>> data, the license does not have the "nc" component, so you'd be
>>> able to
>>> charge money (though in the worst case, you'd have to release
>>> traffic data
>>> under CC-by-sa after you're charged for it).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (eu lamento que n~ao peguei o meu GPS quando fui para al? - si
>>> n~ao, agora
>>> Trindade ficar?a no mapa)
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> --
>>> ----------------------------------
>>> Iv?n S?nchez Ortega <ivan at sanchezortega.es>
>>>
>>> Don't look back, the lemmings are gaining on you.
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>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 00:26:36 +0200
>>> From: Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-dev] Paid services from OSM
>>> To: "Licensing and other legal discussions."
>>>      <legal-talk at openstreetmap.org>
>>> Cc: dev at openstreetmap.org, Julison <julisonbr at gmail.com>
>>> Message-ID: <48DD619C.4070407 at remote.org>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Iv?n S?nchez Ortega wrote:
>>>> putting several
>>>> layers together is not considered a derivative work but a
>>>> collaborative
>>> work,
>>>
>>> "collective"
>>>
>>> Bye
>>> Frederik
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 22:30:41 +0200
>>> From: Iv?n S?nchez Ortega <ivan at sanchezortega.es>
>>> Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-dev] Paid services from OSM
>>> To: legal-talk at openstreetmap.org
>>> Message-ID: <200809262230.43619.ivan at sanchezortega.es>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>> El S?bado, 27 de Septiembre de 2008, Frederik Ramm escribi?:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Iv?n S?nchez Ortega wrote:
>>>>> putting several
>>>>> layers together is not considered a derivative work but a
>>> collaborative
>>>>> work,
>>>>
>>>> "collective"
>>>
>>> /me bangs head against wall repeteadly.
>>>
>>> --
>>> ----------------------------------
>>> Iv?n S?nchez Ortega <ivan at sanchezortega.es>
>>>
>>> El recuerdo es el ?nico para?so del cual no podemos ser expulsados.
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>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 00:53:48 +0200
>>> From: Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-dev] Paid services from OSM
>>> To: Iv?n S?nchez Ortega <ivan at sanchezortega.es>
>>> Cc: legal-talk at openstreetmap.org
>>> Message-ID: <48DD67FC.3040808 at remote.org>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Iv?n S?nchez Ortega wrote:
>>>> /me bangs head against wall repeteadly.
>>>
>>> Don't. The Foundation has already budgeted your head for 2009.
>>>
>>> Bye
>>> Frederik
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> legal-talk mailing list
>>> legal-talk at openstreetmap.org
>>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
>>>
>>>
>>> End of legal-talk Digest, Vol 25, Issue 24
>>> ******************************************
>>
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