[OSM-legal-talk] ODbL: How obscure/inaccessible can published algorithms be?

[Matt Amos]

On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Anthony <osm at inbox.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Matt Amos <zerebubuth at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Anthony <osm at inbox.org> wrote:
>> > Okay, so if company C makes derived database and gives it to company D,
>> > then
>> > company D creates tiles with that database, company D has to offer the
>> > database to anyone who receives the tiles, right?
>>
>> yes, if D is a subcontractor of C. otherwise both C and D must offer it.
>
> What constitutes being a subcontractor?  Subcontractor as in "work for
> hire"?  C has to offer it to whom?  I thought C only has to offer the
> database to D.

the wording used in ODbL is "Persons other than You or under Your
control by either more than 50% ownership or by the power to direct
their activities (such as contracting with an independent
consultant)."

oops, what i wrote earlier wasn't quite right: C only has to offer the
database to D, and D has to offer it to recipients of tiles. (unless,
of course, C is "publicly using" the database as well.)

> "You must also offer to recipients of the Derivative Database or Produced
> Work..."
>
> So, if Company C makes a derived database, and gives it to Company D, and
> Company D makes a Produced Work, and gives it to Company E, Company C has to
> offer Company E the Derivative Database?

i think at that point company D has to offer the derived database to company E.

>> > Can users decline the offer, in which case I can delete the database?
>> > Can I
>> > give users the option to download the database immediately or to decline
>> > the
>> > offer, so I don't have to keep historical data around indefinitely?
>>
>> it's not necessary to keep historical data. and you don't have to keep
>> dumps around either. the offer is pretty much "if you contact me, i'll
>> give you my database as close as i can to the version you used". if
>> you practically can't keep the dumps, then that's not a problem.
>>
>> if you delete all records of the database, then your only options are
>> to recreate it, or reveal the method used to create it.
>
> So, you kind of didn't answer my question.  If I distribute a produced work,
> can I ask the recipient "Do you want the data?", and if they say no, then I
> never have to worry about them coming back and saying "okay, now I want the
> data"?

sorry, i must have misunderstood the question. i think that would be
between you and the recipient.

> I guess if I have to offer even downstream recipients the database, it
> doesn't much matter.  That person might say they don't want the data, and
> then give the produced work to a friend, who then calls me on the phone and
> demands the data.

yeah, the following passage might apply:

"if you Publicly Use a Produced Work, You must include a notice
associated with the Produced Work reasonably calculated to make any
Person that uses, views, accesses, interacts with, or is otherwise
exposed to the Produced Work aware that Content was obtained from the
Database, Derivative Database, or the Database as part of a Collective
Database, and that it is available under this License."

which seems to imply that the offer extends to anyone who sees your
produced work. i'm not sure how it extends to derivatives (where
permitted) of your produced work, though...

cheers,

matt