[OSM-legal-talk] Database right for public transport

[Andrei Klochko]

Hello,

first, to put things clear, I know of Transiki, I know of Google Transit
obviously, I know of OSMand, and I know - a little - about database
copyright in France. I already asked several lawyers about my questions,
without it resulting in any clear answer. And no, what I intend to do will
not be linked to OSM, I will create a separate dite on which OSM would only
feature as the provider of purely geographical data. And also, this site I
may make myself will not prevent me, on another end, to contribute to the
more proper Transiki. But still, I have this "dirty" idea, that I would like
to try.
My question is not about trying to naively copy everything, it is more about
trying to find a way so that I more recreate than copy things. My question
is this:
Starting which point, the whole set of timetables of a single, standalone
transit agency, would constitute a protectable database according to French
Law, in the way that it needed "substantial efforts, either materialy,
financially or in terms of personel, to be created"? By "created", I also
intend that the only work directly tight to the creation of a database, is
the gathering of information,  not its creation (i will come back to that
point later on).

On another end, I know transit agencies are hardly on their own in the real
world, but the thinking behind this is that, if, and only if, I can copy or
reproduce, in any way, including taking pictures of bus stops, the whole set
of timetables a *small* transit agency, then wether these timetables were
gathered *afterwards*(after their creation by the small transit agency, and
put onto their small site) into a bigger database, by either the big company
owning the small one, or by the public authority compiling timetables of all
the transit agencies of whom it has the charge, is none of my concern: in
this case, we would only be gathering data *from the same source*. Of
course, if it happens that the transit agencies only propose unfinished
timetables either to the public authority or to their parent company, and
that it is the authority/parent company that finishes all timetables of many
small agencies, then these timetables would directly be part of their
personal database, and then, taking these timetables, by any mean, would
probably be copying their database.

The point behind that is that there may be a way, along which it would not
be easy for transport agencies to ever prove that a site indeed made
unauthorized copy of a *protected *database. If a set of 10 timetables is
possible to copy, then when you copy timetables from a single transit agency
site, you would only copy THEIR small database, and if the investment they
made into gathering timetable information - I insist on the term *gathering,
*not *creating* - then the copy of all their timetables would not be
forbidden; and if one would copy like that all timetables from all the small
transit agencies he can, and if by doing this he recreates the timetable
database of some big transport authority or parent company, then who cares,
as he only recreated the database from the same source as did this big
entity. This could maybe be a way to do a quick-and-dirty transit map, and
see if anyone manages to prove that there was something illegal in it.

I know this kind of project may sound quite risky, which is why I will do
everything possible to cut all responsibility off Openstreetmap, which I
think is not difficult as Openstreetmap staff would have nothing to do with
my future standalone site, and also, I am not going into that without
preparing the terrain, which is why I am right now consulting so many
lawyers to get a better picture of what is ahead me, and readying my
strategy, to avoid trouble. Any advice on such an entreprise?

Thanks
Andrei
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