[OSM-legal-talk] Google MapMaker and OSM data...

Wed Sep 8 09:30:42 BST 2010

On Sep 8, 2010, at 2:25 AM, Sam Larsen wrote:

> Eric,
> 
> Unless you post the details of this edit on the list - then all this info is 
> useless for the rest of us reading it.  As you can see there are way too many 
> emails on this list for any sane person to keep up with & this is just adding to 
> the overload.  If you have provided the details to the data working group - then 
> that is great, and from our point of view they are the best people for you to 
> continue this investigation/discussion with.
> 
I sent the way/info to the suggested OSM email address/people at OSM(read previous dialog in this thread) earlier today after having been advised(by Richard and 80n I believe) to do so.

Eric Jarvies

> Sam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Eric Jarvies <eric at csl.com.mx>
>> To: Licensing and other legal discussions. <legal-talk at openstreetmap.org>
>> Sent: Tue, 7 September, 2010 19:52:22
>> Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Google MapMaker and OSM data...
>> 
>> 
>> On Sep 7, 2010, at 11:51 AM, Richard Weait wrote:
>> 
>>> On Tue, Sep 7,  2010 at 1:12 PM, Eric Jarvies <eric at csl.com.mx> wrote:
>>>> On Sep  7, 2010, at 10:02 AM, Richard Weait wrote:
>>> 
>>>>> Also, as  more data sets are opening up it is possible that Map Maker
>>>>> and  OSM editors are using similar sources.
>>>> 
>>>> Yes, I  understand this and the context you are explaining it in.  But how 
>> does  this apply to the edit I made to the OSM data?  This edit was not some  
>> recently made available source that was provided to OSM, Google, and others, it  
>> was a just a newbee screw up by yours truly, that resulted in a very unique and  
>> deliberate edit to an existing OSM coastline, that subsequently ended up in  
>> Google's data, as is clearly(to me) being rendered now.  I was just shocked  to 
>> see that Google had inherited my screwed up edit of an existing OSM  coastline, 
>> and that shock turned into interest, which is why I asked here if  they are now 
>> using OSM data.  In short, there really is no other 'similar  source' in this 
>> case... they either got the coastline/way directly from OSM, or  got it from 
>> someone else who got it directly from OSM.
>>> 
>>> Dear  Eric,
>>> 
>>> It is hard for me to say what happened.  What you  describe above does
>>> make it sound like a GMM contributor used OSM as a  source after your
>>> edit, but before you repaired it.  If I haven't  overlooked something;
>>> perhaps a GMM contributor made the same newbee  mistake?  
>> 
>> Well, this is what aroused my interest... after the  initial shock of seeing my 
>> mistake for a second time... first on OSM, and then  now on Google MapMaker(I'm 
>> talking a considerable stretch of coastline), I then  looked at what is and what 
>> is not possible to edit on Google MapMaker... and  coastlines are NOT possible 
>> to edit by contributors, or at least my user account  will not allow it.
>> 
>>> And if there
>>> is no other innocent  explanation; you didn't make the edit on GMM
>>> yourself did you? ;-)  
>> 
>> No, I have never contributed data to the MapMaker repo.
>> 
>>> Then  80n's description above is correct.
>>> Infringement is much more likely to  be a result of ignorance rather
>>> than malice.  It is still  infringement but it might best be resolved
>>> with a please and thank you  than with a nasty-gram.
>> 
>> I was merely curious if Google had started using  OSM data, simply because I 
>> was painfully reminded of that terrible coastline  screw-up I made, that was the 
>> bane of my initial OSM editing experience(not  knowing that the coastline is not 
>> rendered immediately/regularly).  So  apart from the initial shock of seeing it 
>> replicated on Google's MapMaker a week  or two after the initial incident 
>> occurred, I was just downright curious why it  would be there, as I thought 
>> Google did not use OSM data.  So this was a  curious fact finding mission 
>> wrought from a screwed-up coastline editing  experience... nothing more.  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> I do still recommend  that you share the location and details with
>>> OSMers you trust with more  experience than you have; you did describe
>>> yourself as a  newbee.
>> 
>> I emailed the way to the email address you provided me  previously, thank you.
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> You might, as 80n described,  decide to pursue this with GMM yourself.
>>> I'd probably try to reach the  GMM contributor who made that edit,
>> 
>> I could not find indication of  this... I was not allowed to edit the GMM 
>> coastline whilst logged into Google...  perhaps other users are able to do so... 
>> but I doubt it.
>> 
>>> if
>>> that information is available.  Or, you may decide to ask somebody
>>> else in the community to do that for you.  Perhaps somebody at your
>>> local OSM meetups, mapping parties or local chapter.  
>> 
>> I am my local  chapter :(
>> 
>>> Or you can
>>> report this to the Data Working Group  though they prefer if you have
>>> made some initial attempt at contact on  your own.
>> 
>> No, this was not my objective... I merely wanted to know if GMM  was now an OSM 
>> user, and if not, I just wanted folks at OSM to be made aware, if  for no other 
>> reason then to be made aware.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> If GMM does  not
>>> provide a method to contact editors, the idea of contacting Google  Map
>>> Mapker as a whole does sound a bit daunting.
>> 
>> I have contacts  at Google, specifically in their data acquisitions department, 
>> as I've had  dealings with them in the past pertaining to my own data, so 
>> contact would not  be difficult, but as stated, that was not my intention.  
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> I think your point about not publishing the location is worth
>>> considering.  In past, other contributors have provided links to
>>> examples.  That might make an interesting discussion on this list
>>> outside of the context of this specific edit.
>>> 
>> 
>> In what  sense?  
>> 
>> 
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>>> 
>> 
>> 
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