[OSM-legal-talk] Licenses for Produced Works under ODbL

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Hi Igor,

IANAL, so the following are just my opinions.

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 1:07 AM, Igor Brejc <igor.brejc at gmail.com> wrote:
> They also don't really answer the question "what is a Database". Let's take,
> for example, the statement "Rendering databases, for example those produced
> by Osm2pgsql, are clearly databases". First of all, what are "rendering
> databases"? I don't share the same "clearliness" of that statement, frankly.

A rendering database is a database that is used to render/draw a map.
Raw OSM data is not often suitable for rendering maps and you need to
preprocess OSM data into an intermediate database like the PostGIS DB
produced by Osm2pgsql.

As for "what is a Database". This is a legal term and the most common
definition used is from the European Database Directive since it is in
the EU where we have database rights. Their definition of a database
is "a collection of independent works, data or other materials
arranged in a systematic or methodical way and individually accessible
by electronic or other means"

> Another issue is "machine-readable form" of an algorithm. Who says I should
> interpret that as a source code? And if I do, under what license
> can/should/must I release the source code? I'm certainly not going to
> release my work under the Public Domain.

Take note that releasing an algorithm is just an alternate for
releasing the derivative ODbL database. And from the wording of the
ODbL, yes, the algorithm doesn't have to be source code, just
"machine-readable" which can mean any electronic text like: "Use the
program Osm2pgsql with the following settings on the following OSM
extract..."

And if you want to release source code, it can be under any license
with a reasonable cost or free if over the Internet. There is no
obligation for the recipient to share with others. You can actually
say, "here's the source code, but you are not allowed to share it with
others."

> I think the core issue that needs to be addressed and answered is: is there
> a place for proprietary/closed source software in OSM ecosystem? If we
> follow the "strict reading" logic of the mentioned guideliness and the one
> expressed in Frederik's answer, I would certainly have to say the answer is
> NO.

There is actually place for closed software in the OSM ecosystem. You
can use a proprietary map rendering software to draw maps made from
OSM data or a derivative database (assuming the software doesn't
itself create derivative databases.) And as I mentioned above, there
is absolutely no requirement to release source code or even algorithms
if you are able to provide the final derivative database used to
create your produced work at a reasonable cost.

Eugene

> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Michael Collinson <mike at ayeltd.biz> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Igor,
>>
>> I wonder if this resource helps with your question?
>>
>>
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Trivial_Transformations_-_Guideline
>> (a work in progress)
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> On 22/10/2012 18:45, Igor Brejc wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Thanks for your clarifications, everybody. I was under the (looks like
>> wrong) impression the produced work must also be available under the ODbL
>> license.
>> One issue still bugs me though:
>>
>>> If the closed software you have used did not work on the data directly,
>>> but on some sort of pre-processed or augmented data, then *that* would be
>>> the data you have to hand over.
>>
>>
>> What does "pre-processed or augmented" data really mean? OSM data has to
>> be preprocessed to get to the form suitable for rendering. Some examples of
>> preprocessing:
>>
>> Importing it into PostGIS and flattening the geometries (like Mapnik does
>> it).
>> Generalizations: simplifications of roads, polygons etc. for a certain map
>> scale.
>> Finding suitable label placements.
>> Extracting topology from the data (like multipolygon processing, merging
>> of polygons, road segments etc.).
>> Running other complex algorithms on the OSM data.
>>
>> This preprocessing can be done "on-the" fly or (in case of Mapnik) as a
>> separate prerequisite step.
>>
>> Igor
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On 10/22/12 12:07, Igor Brejc wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  2. I generate a PDF map from that extract using an unpublished,
>>>>
>>>>     closed-source software. The map includes the appropriate OSM
>>>>     attribution text.
>>>
>>>
>>>>  1. Is this possible?
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes (assuming that the PDF is not a database).
>>>
>>> >  2. What are my obligations in terms of ODbL license? What (if
>>> > anything)
>>>
>>> >     do I have to provide, publish etc.?
>>>
>>> Recipients of the PDF, i.e. anyone who views iStockPhoto, would have the
>>> right to ask you to hand over the database on which the map is based. You
>>> would then have the option of saying "it's plain OSM, simply download it
>>> from <X>", or actually give them the data.
>>>
>>> If the closed software you have used did not work on the data directly,
>>> but on some sort of pre-processed or augmented data, then *that* would be
>>> the data you have to hand over.
>>>
>>>>  3. Would there be a difference if it was PNG/SVG instead of PDF?
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think so.
>>>
>>>>  4. Can the buyer of such a map then password-protect his own resulting
>>>>
>>>>     work (which includes that map)?
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes. You will have sold him the work under the condition that he
>>> continues to attribute OSM, but other than that he has no obligations
>>> (unless you put some in).
>>>
>>> If you sell the work with an OSM attribution but without the condition to
>>> perpetuate that attribution, you may be in breach of ODbL or you may not;
>>> this depends on how you interpret the "suitably calculated to make anyone
>>> ... aware" clause.
>>>
>>> Bye
>>> Frederik
>>>
>
>
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