[OSM-legal-talk] FW: OSM place name data from Turkey

[Paul Norman]

A user in Turkey brought in about 30k place nodes (or mountain peak nodes)
from HGK, a Turkish government agency.

HGK prohibits actions besides personal use[1] and this is clearly
incompatible with the ODbL. As I indicated, this means they need to be
removed,[2] which in technical terms means redacting them. Identifying the
material to be redacted will not be easy.

A couple of people have indicated that there may be other sources available
which have village locations. Unfortunately, this does not change the status
of the HGK data. It is an odd situation where the data is not available
under an open license from one agency, but the exact same data is openly
licensed from another agency. 

== Questions ==

LWG: My understanding is we need permission or a suitable license from the
data source and that finding an alternate source would only allow us to
bring in the new data, not keep the old data. Is this correct?

LWG+DWG: If someone re-uploads the HGK data because they disagree with the
redaction, they will of intentionally and knowingly uploaded copyrighted
material without permission or a license. Does the DMCA oblige us to do
something about this? If they do this, should we do something even if we
aren't required to under the DMCA?
	
[1]: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-tr/2013-April/000291.html
as well as a Bing translation of their FAQ

[2]: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-tr/2013-April/000293.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Norman [mailto:penorman at mac.com] 
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 8:15 PM
To: 'Suha Ulgen'
Cc: 'OSM Mikel Maron'; 'Schuyler Erle'; 'Mikel Maron'; 'Kate Chapman'
Subject: RE: OSM place name data from Turkey

> From: Suha Ulgen [mailto:me at suhaulgen.com]
> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 7:56 PM
> Subject: OSM place name data from Turkey
> 
> Paul,
> 
> The Turkish OSM community is very distressed about your recent 
> unilateral action. Apparently you are erasing the place names in the 
> Turkish dataset stating that the source data which you identify as 
> belonging to the Turkish General Command for Mapping (Harita Genel 
> Komutanligi - HGK) is not ODbL-compatible.

This issue was raised on the talk-tr@ mailing list. The conclusion, as you
mentioned, was that the HGK data was not ODbL compatible. Not being ODbL
compatible, we cannot distribute it. 

> The counter argument is that Turkish gazetteer data has been submitted 
> by HGK to the UN Group of Experts on Geographic Names (UNGEGN) and is 
> therefore in the "public domain".

The list raised the possibility that there might be an alternate source of
Turkish place names. Unfortunately, this doesn't change the status of the
HGK sourced material, which has explicit restrictions against distribution.

Do you anticipate getting permission from *HGK* to distribute their data?

> Please STOP "redacting" the Turkish place names. I'll talk to the 
> UNGEGN Secretariat tomorrow and revert ASAP.

It should not be technically possible to use the normal revert tools on a
redaction. In any case, do not reintroduce the data downloaded from HGK that
we do not have permission to redistribute.