[Merkaartor] Templatized tagging committed

Chris Browet cbro at semperpax.com
Tue Nov 4 13:51:36 GMT 2008

>> Because I don't know what capability the "presets.xml" format have. Is
>> there a doc somewhere?
> http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/TaggingPresets
> http://josm.openstreetmap.de/svn/trunk/presets/presets.xml
Ok, thanks. If I understand well, the <key> tag actually is the equivalent
of my "constant" and there is no way to automatically show a template based
upon the tags of a feature, right?

>  Speaking of wasted efforts, trying to bend an existing format to my
>> requirements seemed much more wasted time than creating my own.
> We have 1385 lines of strings to translate in the JOSM presets format. If
> you multiple that with e.g. 6 for the languages, then the work to create and
> support a file format definition is much outweighted by the work of the
> people lateron supporting that format. Sorry. Not always is the programmers
> side the best view.

Right you are.

>  To whom would a common format benefit anyway (besides the translators, and
>> again translated tags is not one of my own requirements)?
> Yes and I still consider it a bad habit of you to ignore the requirements
> of so many only because it does not fit your own opinion. Nevertheless this
> is again the wrong place to discuss this.

Well, I said it is not one of MY requirements, I didn't say I'd ignore the
requirements of others. There IS provision for tag translation...

>  My original idea is to allow users to create their own templates based
>> upon their own (local) requirements. A centralized, svn-based, common
>> template contradicts this idea. It can be mitigated with, e.g., a wiki page
>> with a repository of templates, but does JOSM support changing templates
>> on-the-fly or in preferences?
> We are not discussing the way how the file is used, but how the fileformat
> looks like. That is a big difference.

Actually, I was discussing the benefits of having a common format, beyond
translation .

> And yes, JOSM supports loading of multiple preset files including local
> modified variants as well as weblinks. Thought there are only few examples
> of alternative preset files and usually they are outdated since a long time,
> whereas the internal file is updated regularily.
>  Obviously, using JOSM format is not a requirement for me. For easyness of
>> the translators using both editor (i.e. you AFAIK), I could use it, only if
>> I don't loose functionality.
> About half a year ago I already agreed to support sensible changes in the
> file format to allow integration into different editors. I never got a
> response to this, but now I see a totally new fileformat. It is pretty
> clear, that you do not like to support previously established standards, but
> rather start your own invention. This is nothing I consider useful.

I admit I generally find more fun in creating new things than to reuse from
the others if I still have to spend time understanding and tweaking it.

>  Long story: Brussels is a bilingual city in a trilingual country (like
>> others, I suppose). The standard tagging for streets is to indicate the name
>> in french ("name:fr"), the name in dutch ("name:nl") and both in the "name"
>> tag, i.e. "name:fr - name:nl". It's a great timesaver to just indicate the
>> name:* and have the "name" automatically generated.
> Actually that is nothing which should be supported at all.
> This is something, which in future has to be fixed by map applications
> showing the name dynamically based on the users language. The current crude
> workarounds do not need additional support from the applications.
> ?? Just above you say that I "ignore the requirements of so many" and that
"It is pretty clear, that you do not like to support previously established
standards" and now you say "the hell with the established standard tagging
for Brussels, just do it another way".

Whatever, I'm a tired of all this.

You're right saying that I don't follow "established standards" I don't
believe in and that won't change. You're right saying that I do things the
way it fits my needs and that won't change, although I think I try to
anticipate the needs of the others.

I like discussion, exchanging point-of-views, trying to explain mine to
others. I'm sorry to say that I have the impression it is quite difficult to
influence yours.
One thing I certainly don't want is for others to think that I try to impose
my views. There is just nobody else doing the work so, yes, I do it the way
I prefer.

If some think the tagging templates (or whatever feature of mine) in the
current state should be removed, I will.
In the same vein, if some prefer it that way, I will just post patches to
TRAC/the list for the community to review/adapt before commit, like any

- Chris -
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