From adrianpbrain at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Apr  2 21:25:39 2012
From: adrianpbrain at yahoo.co.uk (Adrian Brain)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 21:25:39 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [OSM-newbies] (no subject)
Message-ID: <1333398339.87442.YahooMailMobile@web171505.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

<a href="http://hfishman.com/zp/cache/test2/02efpk.html"> http://hfishman.com/zp/cache/test2/02efpk.html</a>
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From dudleyibbett at hotmail.com  Sat Apr  7 19:24:26 2012
From: dudleyibbett at hotmail.com (Dudley Ibbett)
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 18:24:26 +0000
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Boundaries and Roads
Message-ID: <DUB112-W12202309E750B82C5746631C6310@phx.gbl>


Hi

I could do with some advice on joining field boundaries to roads.  I have been doing this as the mapping style I am use to never has the field boundary running along the side the road.  If the field boundary along the road is well set back then I would consider drawing it however in most cases it is within a few meters of the road and sometimes there is not gap at all.  I believe the OSM application can in theory go down to 3m.  Drawing a field boundary along a road where the gap is less than 3 meters between the boundary (wall,fence) and the end of the road would therefore seem unrealistic.

Should I try and draw the field boundary along the road in all situations or only do this when there is a large gap > 3m?

If I don't draw the field boundary along the road should I link to the road or should I stop the boundary just short of the road?

Some guidance would be appreciated as I don't want to link boundaries to roads if this could cause problems.

Many thanks in advance.

Regards

Dudley
 		 	   		  
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From jcg.sturdy at gmail.com  Sun Apr  8 16:12:18 2012
From: jcg.sturdy at gmail.com (John Sturdy)
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 16:12:18 +0100
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Boundaries and Roads
In-Reply-To: <DUB112-W12202309E750B82C5746631C6310@phx.gbl>
References: <DUB112-W12202309E750B82C5746631C6310@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAFJf9KPrvG=ceU1aY7NgU4ZgDE-xnABwsJFfBiSV4b4CQUcGqw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 7:24 PM, Dudley Ibbett <dudleyibbett at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Should I try and draw the field boundary along the road in all situations or
> only do this when there is a large gap > 3m?
>
> If I don't draw the field boundary along the road should I link to the road
> or should I stop the boundary just short of the road?
>
> Some guidance would be appreciated as I don't want to link boundaries to
> roads if this could cause problems.

I think practices vary on this; I prefer to make them separate, partly
because the "road" is just the midline of the road, which is not where
the field ends, and partly for practicality of later editing: that
it's hard(er) to select a way that uses the same points as another
one.

What I've found is quite easy, and I think looks reasonably neat, is
to use the "make a parallel way" tool (in Potlatch, I haven't learnt
JOSM yet but I expect it has this too) to take a copy of the road, and
move it slightly aside to where the field boundary is, and cut it to
be just the piece you need for that field; then turn it into whatever
kind of barrier there is around the field (hedge, fence, etc) and also
use it as the edge of the field.  (That doesn't follow my suggestion
of making each way separate for easier selection, but I think it's
less likely to want to do things separately to the field and its
barrier, than to want to do things separately to the field and the
neighbouring road.)

__John


From dxpublica at telefonica.net  Sun Apr  8 17:54:08 2012
From: dxpublica at telefonica.net (Xan)
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2012 18:54:08 +0200
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Boundaries and Roads
In-Reply-To: <CAFJf9KPrvG=ceU1aY7NgU4ZgDE-xnABwsJFfBiSV4b4CQUcGqw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DUB112-W12202309E750B82C5746631C6310@phx.gbl>
	<CAFJf9KPrvG=ceU1aY7NgU4ZgDE-xnABwsJFfBiSV4b4CQUcGqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F81C2B0.7010605@telefonica.net>

Al 08/04/12 17:12, En/na John Sturdy ha escrit:
> On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 7:24 PM, Dudley Ibbett<dudleyibbett at hotmail.com>  wrote:
>
>> Should I try and draw the field boundary along the road in all situations or
>> only do this when there is a large gap>  3m?
>>
>> If I don't draw the field boundary along the road should I link to the road
>> or should I stop the boundary just short of the road?
>>
>> Some guidance would be appreciated as I don't want to link boundaries to
>> roads if this could cause problems.
> I think practices vary on this; I prefer to make them separate, partly
> because the "road" is just the midline of the road, which is not where
> the field ends, and partly for practicality of later editing: that
> it's hard(er) to select a way that uses the same points as another
> one.
>
+1 for make separate.

Xan.


From dwlitke at comcast.net  Sun Apr  8 20:02:32 2012
From: dwlitke at comcast.net (David Litke)
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 13:02:32 -0600
Subject: [OSM-newbies] When is a Potlatch 2 editing session finished?
Message-ID: <17FCDA8972274989A681804D39C34C23@Fred>

After making some Potlatch 2 edits, if I go to my "my edits" page, I see the current changeset with the message "still editing". How do you close a changeset?
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From dwlitke at comcast.net  Sun Apr  8 20:09:11 2012
From: dwlitke at comcast.net (David Litke)
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 13:09:11 -0600
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Avoiding many changesets
Message-ID: <A5B1053698044286AB27D66CE25E0C46@Fred>

A have a dozen or so changesets so far, and I realized I forgot to add the source=survey tag to my edits. If I make this single change, I end up with yet another changeset. It seems soon I will have too many changesets to keep track of. Can I avoid this by keeping Potlatch 2 open for a long time while making my original edits (it takes me along time to get everything right)? Or maybe it is better to use JOSM, and save my edits locally until I am finished with an area? If I do this, how long is it reasonable to make local edits before I upload them back to OSM (I am worried about conflicts with other users if I keep a local JOSM editing session going for too long).
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From richard at systemed.net  Sun Apr  8 20:44:37 2012
From: richard at systemed.net (Richard Fairhurst)
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 12:44:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [OSM-newbies] When is a Potlatch 2 editing session finished?
In-Reply-To: <17FCDA8972274989A681804D39C34C23@Fred>
References: <17FCDA8972274989A681804D39C34C23@Fred>
Message-ID: <1333914277405-5626368.post@n5.nabble.com>

David Litke wrote:
> After making some Potlatch 2 edits, if I go to my 
> "my edits" page, I see the current changeset with 
> the message "still editing". How do you close a changeset?

You can press C. But there's really no need to. It'll close itself after an
hour of inactivity: closing it makes absolutely no difference to anything.

cheers
Richard



--
View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/When-is-a-Potlatch-2-editing-session-finished-tp5626330p5626368.html
Sent from the Newbies mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


From bernd.vogelgesang at gmx.de  Sun Apr  8 20:51:36 2012
From: bernd.vogelgesang at gmx.de (Bernd Vogelgesang)
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2012 21:51:36 +0200
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Boundaries and Roads
In-Reply-To: <mailman.39.1333882830.19418.newbies@openstreetmap.org>
References: <mailman.39.1333882830.19418.newbies@openstreetmap.org>
Message-ID: <op.wcgpgaogl2i25i@bernd-aspire-5741g>

Well,
 from a GIS-persons point of view, you alway should avoid gaps in your map  
( = in your data).
Cartographic work is always generalizing the world, and only because you  
COULD go into detail in the sub-meter sphere technically with the digital  
means nowadays, you should should ask yourself: what is it good for?

So, what would be the information you provide, leaving a blank space  
between a field and a road?
Actually none, cause you do not specify what this gap is, although its  
quite clear that it's something between the road and the field.
But when its already obvious that there are strips of surface which do not  
belong neither to roads nor fields, you could right away leave them out  
and align the border of the field directly to the road.

In digitizing you normally decide about the map scale of the end product.  
With OSM-maps, thats a little bit difficult, cause there is no common  
sense about the usage, and therefor also about the production-scale.

The planned scale is important, cause it decides about the precision you  
need to get a satisfying result.
E.g. when you want to have a map in 1:5000, you normally digitize your  
features at a scale of 1:2500 or 1:2000.
The human eye can not distinguish features smaller than half a millimeter  
on a screen or on paper.

With a map in 1:5000, 1/2mm on screen is 2,5 meters in reality. Thats the  
planned "error" you are "allowed" to produce, cause on the planned scale,  
you can't even see it.

So the question should always be: what is the planned usage and what is  
the benefit from increasing the accuracy?

A field border outside a village is much less interesting than borders and  
features in a town center.
When the mapped part is mostly relevant for navigating, so as a real  
street map, you could easily set your planned scale to 1:25000 or even  
higher (with the resulting need for generalization), as normal users will  
watch it in that scale anyway to get the overview they need.
If it's a feature of high interest, you could set your planned scale to  
1:1000 or lower, with a resulting need of higher accuracy.

Hope that helped a bit.
Bernd

(please be aware: this opinion might be in conflict with some holy  
OSM-rules set up by some OSM-priests i do not know and do not care about.  
This is just cartographic common sense)


Am 08.04.2012, 13:00 Uhr, schrieb <newbies-request at openstreetmap.org>:

> Send newbies mailing list submissions to
> newbies at openstreetmap.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of newbies digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Boundaries and Roads (Dudley Ibbett)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 18:24:26 +0000
> From: Dudley Ibbett <dudleyibbett at hotmail.com>
> To: <newbies at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSM-newbies] Boundaries and Roads
> Message-ID: <DUB112-W12202309E750B82C5746631C6310 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Hi
>
> I could do with some advice on joining field boundaries to roads. Ihave  
> been doing this as the mapping style I am use to never has thefield  
> boundary running along the side the road. If the field boundaryalong the  
> road is well set back then I would consider drawing it howeverin most  
> cases it is within a few meters of the road and sometimes thereis not  
> gap at all. I believe the OSM application can in theory go downto 3m.  
> Drawing a field boundary along a road where the gap is less than3 meters  
> between the boundary (wall,fence) and the end of the road wouldtherefore  
> seem unrealistic.
>
> Should I try and draw the field boundary along the road in allsituations  
> or only do this when there is a large gap > 3m?
>
> If I don't draw the field boundary along the road should I link to the 
> road or should I stop the boundary just short of the road?
>
> Some guidance would be appreciated as I don't want to link boundaries to 
> roads if this could cause problems.
>
> Many thanks in advance.
>
> Regards
>
> Dudley
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> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
> newbies at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies
>
>
> End of newbies Digest, Vol 62, Issue 2
> **************************************


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From techlady at techlady.com  Tue Apr 10 01:21:53 2012
From: techlady at techlady.com (Charlotte Wolter)
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2012 17:21:53 -0700
Subject: [OSM-newbies] More questions about map cleanup
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20120409172144.0d03e090@mail.adelphia.net>

Hello again,

         Thanks for the info on where to find the cleanup page.
         Now, as I begin to work on West LA using the OSM Inspector, 
I have a couple more questions.
         --If a way is marked red, do I have to delete it and redraw 
it altogether? (After all most of these began as TIGER data)
         --If a way is marked with orange, is it enough just to 
change it to a different type of road (such as primary), then save 
it, then change it back and save it again? Or do I have to do 
something more elaborate?
         --Ditto for points

Best,

Charlotte


Charlotte Wolter
927 18th Street Suite A
Santa Monica, California
90403
+1-310-597-4040
techlady at techlady.com
Skype: thetechlady

The Four Internet Freedoms
Freedom to visit any site on the Internet
Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal
Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network
Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that 
would affect the first three freedoms.
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From clifford at snowandsnow.us  Tue Apr 10 02:14:32 2012
From: clifford at snowandsnow.us (Clifford Snow)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 18:14:32 -0700
Subject: [OSM-newbies] More questions about map cleanup
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20120409172144.0d03e090@mail.adelphia.net>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20120409172144.0d03e090@mail.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <CADAoPLoV=Oq5WvPY4Z98E4YdTfdcQ+Y9Z7K0hpaZvmeSfX1sHw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 5:21 PM, Charlotte Wolter <techlady at techlady.com>wrote:

>  Hello again,
>
> **        **Thanks for the info on where to find the cleanup page.
> **        **Now, as I begin to work on West LA using the OSM Inspector, I
> have a couple more questions.
> **        **--If a way is marked red, do I have to delete it and redraw
> it altogether? (After all most of these began as TIGER data)
> **        **--If a way is marked with orange, is it enough just to change
> it to a different type of road (such as primary), then save it, then change
> it back and save it again? Or do I have to do something more elaborate?
> **        **--Ditto for points
>
> Best,
>
> Charlotte
>
> My experience is that you need to delete the way.  Just changing it
doesn't change the underlying licensing problem.  Also you can not delete a
section and then extend another bad license segment.  It just brings the
original licensing problem with it.  So delete and recreate.  But sure to
have access to good information for the way you are deleting.  I've been
verifying against TIGER data.  Not importing, just to get the way name.
And since I'm working in pretty much in my city, I know what types of
streets there are.  (Primary, residential, etc.)

Good luck and have fun,
Clifford
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From lists at mail.atownsend.org.uk  Tue Apr 10 09:52:14 2012
From: lists at mail.atownsend.org.uk (SomeoneElse)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 09:52:14 +0100
Subject: [OSM-newbies] More questions about map cleanup
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20120409172144.0d03e090@mail.adelphia.net>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20120409172144.0d03e090@mail.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <4F83F4BE.6070705@mail.atownsend.org.uk>

Charlotte Wolter wrote:
> Now, as I begin to work on West LA using the OSM Inspector, I have a 
> couple more questions.

One other thing to bear in mind is that the licence change "redaction 
bot" is likely to run Real Soon Now, so you may find that you end up 
"mapping" West LA rather than "remapping" it.  The current status is, I 
believe, here:

http://blog.osmfoundation.org/

(although I'd expect that that blog will tend to lag a little behind 
what's actually happening)

Cheers,
Andy

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From javiersdevmail at ymail.com  Tue Apr 10 10:00:30 2012
From: javiersdevmail at ymail.com (Javier Mr)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 10:00:30 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [OSM-newbies] OSM local server setup complete guide
Message-ID: <1334048430.68645.YahooMailNeo@web132105.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi,

is there a good, complete guide describing how to set up a map server (using Geoserver) with OSM data.

What i'm looking for is:

- How to take OSM data into a local DataBase (I have already done this with .osm files into a PostGIS DB)
- How to create the appropiate layers in Geoserver (Already achieve this, but dont know if in the best way)

- Finally, and were i'm stuck, good styles for Geoserver (ones like used by OSM but for Geoserver instead of Mapnik)

I have found styles for Geoserver but they give problems when validating the xml (people also noticed that in the post comments). So if anyone knows of good-looking working styles for Geoserver they will be appreciated.

Javier
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From stevagewp at gmail.com  Tue Apr 10 11:22:32 2012
From: stevagewp at gmail.com (Steve Bennett)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 20:22:32 +1000
Subject: [OSM-newbies] When is a Potlatch 2 editing session finished?
In-Reply-To: <1333914277405-5626368.post@n5.nabble.com>
References: <17FCDA8972274989A681804D39C34C23@Fred>
	<1333914277405-5626368.post@n5.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <CA+z=q=vcY1dTM5Nb-wDrgj8sHQru3XxhrcieiRDav+-A7SVfew@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 5:44 AM, Richard Fairhurst <richard at systemed.net> wrote:
> You can press C. But there's really no need to. It'll close itself after an
> hour of inactivity: closing it makes absolutely no difference to anything.

Well, to be more precise, closing the changeset causes Potlatch2 to
prompt you for a new changeset description next time you save. If you
care about changeset descriptions (I don't), then closing changesets
matters.

Steve


From techlady at techlady.com  Tue Apr 10 19:22:37 2012
From: techlady at techlady.com (Charlotte Wolter)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 11:22:37 -0700
Subject: [OSM-newbies] More questions about map cleanup
In-Reply-To: <CADAoPLoV=Oq5WvPY4Z98E4YdTfdcQ+Y9Z7K0hpaZvmeSfX1sHw@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20120409172144.0d03e090@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CADAoPLoV=Oq5WvPY4Z98E4YdTfdcQ+Y9Z7K0hpaZvmeSfX1sHw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20120410111141.10a62788@mail.adelphia.net>

Clifford,

         Thanks for your suggestions.
         But, one question. I never upload anything. I use only 
Potlatch 2. So, if I delete a bad way, it's gone. No TIGER data 
remains. So how do I verify against TIGER data? (Luckily I'm mostly 
deleting parts of ways. Some streets in LA go on for miles, so few 
names are lost. But a few would be.)

Charlotte


At 06:14 PM 4/9/2012, you wrote:


>On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 5:21 PM, Charlotte Wolter 
><<mailto:techlady at techlady.com>techlady at techlady.com> wrote:
>Hello again,
>
>         Thanks for the info on where to find the cleanup page.
>         Now, as I begin to work on West LA using the OSM Inspector, 
> I have a couple more questions.
>         --If a way is marked red, do I have to delete it and redraw 
> it altogether? (After all most of these began as TIGER data)
>         --If a way is marked with orange, is it enough just to 
> change it to a different type of road (such as primary), then save 
> it, then change it back and save it again? Or do I have to do 
> something more elaborate?
>         --Ditto for points
>
>Best,
>
>Charlotte
>
>My experience is that you need to delete the way.  Just changing it 
>doesn't change the underlying licensing problem.  Also you can not 
>delete a section and then extend another bad license segment.  It 
>just brings the original licensing problem with it.  So delete and 
>recreate.  But sure to have access to good information for the way 
>you are deleting.  I've been verifying against TIGER data.  Not 
>importing, just to get the way name.  And since I'm working in 
>pretty much in my city, I know what types of streets there 
>are.  (Primary, residential, etc.)
>
>Good luck and have fun,
>Clifford
>_______________________________________________
>newbies mailing list
>newbies at openstreetmap.org
>http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies

Charlotte Wolter
927 18th Street Suite A
Santa Monica, California
90403
+1-310-597-4040
techlady at techlady.com
Skype: thetechlady

The Four Internet Freedoms
Freedom to visit any site on the Internet
Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal
Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network
Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that 
would affect the first three freedoms.
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From techlady at techlady.com  Tue Apr 10 20:01:08 2012
From: techlady at techlady.com (Charlotte Wolter)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 12:01:08 -0700
Subject: [OSM-newbies] More questions about map cleanup
In-Reply-To: <4F83F4BE.6070705@mail.atownsend.org.uk>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20120409172144.0d03e090@mail.adelphia.net>
	<4F83F4BE.6070705@mail.atownsend.org.uk>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20120410115117.10a63e98@mail.adelphia.net>

Andy,

         Thanks for your suggestions.
         Mapping or remapping: It doesn't matter to me as long as 
there remains a guide, such as OSM Inspector, to let me know what I 
should be working on (rather than having to discover it myself).
         I personally think the change and the deletion of ways has 
been handled too abruptly, and the tools to manage the transition 
appeared too late. Let's hope these tools won't disappear now along 
with the streets.
         Also, is OSM Inspector ever updated? I have deleted and 
redrawn several ways over the last few days, but no change appears in 
OSM Inspector. When is it updated?
         And, also, why is there no wiki for all these questions?
         And, why don't we just replace deleted streets with the 
original TIGER data?

Charlotte


At 01:52 AM 4/10/2012, you wrote:
>Charlotte Wolter wrote:
>>         Now, as I begin to work on West LA using the OSM 
>> Inspector, I have a couple more questions.
>
>One other thing to bear in mind is that the licence change 
>"redaction bot" is likely to run Real Soon Now, so you may find that 
>you end up "mapping" West LA rather than "remapping" it.  The 
>current status is, I believe, here:
>
><http://blog.osmfoundation.org/>http://blog.osmfoundation.org/
>
>(although I'd expect that that blog will tend to lag a little behind 
>what's actually happening)
>
>Cheers,
>Andy
>
>_______________________________________________
>newbies mailing list
>newbies at openstreetmap.org
>http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies

Charlotte Wolter
927 18th Street Suite A
Santa Monica, California
90403
+1-310-597-4040
techlady at techlady.com
Skype: thetechlady

The Four Internet Freedoms
Freedom to visit any site on the Internet
Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal
Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network
Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that 
would affect the first three freedoms.
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From clifford at snowandsnow.us  Tue Apr 10 22:19:30 2012
From: clifford at snowandsnow.us (Clifford Snow)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 14:19:30 -0700
Subject: [OSM-newbies] More questions about map cleanup
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20120410111141.10a62788@mail.adelphia.net>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20120409172144.0d03e090@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CADAoPLoV=Oq5WvPY4Z98E4YdTfdcQ+Y9Z7K0hpaZvmeSfX1sHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120410111141.10a62788@mail.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <CADAoPLpwaCk3yhRRDco5K8cnNAadLgD9UBVBuSXY4ojQ1j6jPA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Charlotte Wolter <techlady at techlady.com>wrote:

>
> **        **Thanks for your suggestions.
>         But, one question. I never upload anything. I use only Potlatch 2.
> So, if I delete a bad way, it's gone. No TIGER data remains. So how do I
> verify against TIGER data? (Luckily I'm mostly deleting parts of ways. Some
> streets in LA go on for miles, so few names are lost. But a few would be.)
>

I use TIGER data with josm.  The process of converting the TIGER shapefiles
into osm is covered on the wiki.  However, since I don't think we have much
time left before the ways are deleted you might look into other sources.
Here in Seattle, I believe  the  county has a map that you can find county
wide information.  Our city has one, but it is based on Bing (of course
Seattle would choose Bing.)  I wonder if there is something similar in LA?
You might search in the county web sites.  Be sure it isn't copyright
material.

Good luck,
Clifford
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From andrew.harvey4 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 12 08:30:43 2012
From: andrew.harvey4 at gmail.com (Andrew Harvey)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 17:30:43 +1000
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Avoiding many changesets
In-Reply-To: <A5B1053698044286AB27D66CE25E0C46@Fred>
References: <A5B1053698044286AB27D66CE25E0C46@Fred>
Message-ID: <4F8684A3.7090700@gmail.com>

On 09/04/12 05:09, David Litke wrote:
> A have a dozen or so changesets so far, and I realized I forgot to add the source=survey tag to my edits. If I make this single change, I end up with yet another changeset.

That's fine, just make the changes in a new changeset.

> It seems soon I will have too many changesets to keep track of. Can I avoid this by keeping Potlatch 2 open for a long time while making my original edits (it takes me along time to get everything right)?

> Or maybe it is better to use JOSM, and save my edits locally until I am finished with an area? If I do this, how long is it reasonable to make local edits before I upload them back to OSM (I am worried about conflicts with other users if I keep a local JOSM editing session going for too long).

I wouldn't keep them for longer than a day but it depends how happy you
are to use the conflicts tool in josm and how much editing is going on
in that area by others at the same time.

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From dxpublica at telefonica.net  Thu Apr 12 20:21:08 2012
From: dxpublica at telefonica.net (Xan)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 21:21:08 +0200
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Public dinner room?
Message-ID: <4F872B24.1010007@telefonica.net>

Hi,

How to tag a public dinner room?

Thanks in advance,
Xan.


From pieren3 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 12 23:36:45 2012
From: pieren3 at gmail.com (Pieren)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 00:36:45 +0200
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Public dinner room?
In-Reply-To: <4F872B24.1010007@telefonica.net>
References: <4F872B24.1010007@telefonica.net>
Message-ID: <CAPT3zJqhXH0Fw=pJ8nW6TyhYHwydVKvYe69=QsyUBkgf7FRe+Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 9:21 PM, Xan <dxpublica at telefonica.net> wrote:
> How to tag a public dinner room?

Not sure if this is exactly what you search but check this :
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dcommunity_centre

Pieren


From ve6srv at gmail.com  Fri Apr 13 00:59:40 2012
From: ve6srv at gmail.com (James Ewen)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 17:59:40 -0600
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Public dinner room?
In-Reply-To: <4F872B24.1010007@telefonica.net>
References: <4F872B24.1010007@telefonica.net>
Message-ID: <CAMexNt6xV31YbUzzX=i8x_K-f6mGDmvkG6j3eSwC6u0rbj9Mkg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Xan <dxpublica at telefonica.net> wrote:

> How to tag a public dinner room?

What is a public dinner room? Would it be a restaurant?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restaurant

It looks to be a term used in Australia to describe a restaurant.

-- 
James
VE6SRV


From john at jfeldredge.com  Fri Apr 13 03:05:07 2012
From: john at jfeldredge.com (John F. Eldredge)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 21:05:07 -0500
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Public dinner room?
In-Reply-To: <CAMexNt6xV31YbUzzX=i8x_K-f6mGDmvkG6j3eSwC6u0rbj9Mkg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F872B24.1010007@telefonica.net>
	<CAMexNt6xV31YbUzzX=i8x_K-f6mGDmvkG6j3eSwC6u0rbj9Mkg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006f1944-adbf-43b8-9d94-27d565bfe6a1@email.android.com>

James Ewen <ve6srv at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Xan <dxpublica at telefonica.net> wrote:
> 
> > How to tag a public dinner room?
> 
> What is a public dinner room? Would it be a restaurant?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restaurant
> 
> It looks to be a term used in Australia to describe a restaurant.
> 
> -- 
> James
> VE6SRV
> 
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
> newbies at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies

Well, in the USA you have both restaurants with rooms that can be rented for parties, with the food coming from the restaurant kitchen; and also banquet halls that provide the meeting space, tables, and chairs, but no food, meaning that you have to either hire a third-party caterer, or else have the guests bring the food themselves (known as a potluck dinner).

-- 
John F. Eldredge --  john at jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria


From ve6srv at gmail.com  Fri Apr 13 04:30:35 2012
From: ve6srv at gmail.com (James Ewen)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 21:30:35 -0600
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Public dinner room?
In-Reply-To: <006f1944-adbf-43b8-9d94-27d565bfe6a1@email.android.com>
References: <4F872B24.1010007@telefonica.net>
	<CAMexNt6xV31YbUzzX=i8x_K-f6mGDmvkG6j3eSwC6u0rbj9Mkg@mail.gmail.com>
	<006f1944-adbf-43b8-9d94-27d565bfe6a1@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAMexNt557R7iNDQeWhp_QUf0AtYuoRT=NrZ+2Ei70e-7EO_aGw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 8:05 PM, John F. Eldredge <john at jfeldredge.com> wrote:

> Well, in the USA you have both restaurants with rooms that can be
> rented for parties, with the food coming from the restaurant kitchen;
> and also banquet halls that provide the meeting space, tables, and
> chairs, but no food, meaning that you have to either hire a third-party
> caterer, or else have the guests bring the food themselves (known as
> a potluck dinner).

And hence the request for clarification as to what a "public diner
room" might be.

-- 
James
VE6SRV


From dxpublica at telefonica.net  Fri Apr 13 19:05:44 2012
From: dxpublica at telefonica.net (Xan)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 20:05:44 +0200
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Public dinner room?
In-Reply-To: <CAMexNt557R7iNDQeWhp_QUf0AtYuoRT=NrZ+2Ei70e-7EO_aGw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F872B24.1010007@telefonica.net>
	<CAMexNt6xV31YbUzzX=i8x_K-f6mGDmvkG6j3eSwC6u0rbj9Mkg@mail.gmail.com>
	<006f1944-adbf-43b8-9d94-27d565bfe6a1@email.android.com>
	<CAMexNt557R7iNDQeWhp_QUf0AtYuoRT=NrZ+2Ei70e-7EO_aGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F886AF8.60204@telefonica.net>

Al 13/04/12 05:30, En/na James Ewen ha escrit:
> On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 8:05 PM, John F. Eldredge<john at jfeldredge.com>  wrote:
>
>> Well, in the USA you have both restaurants with rooms that can be
>> rented for parties, with the food coming from the restaurant kitchen;
>> and also banquet halls that provide the meeting space, tables, and
>> chairs, but no food, meaning that you have to either hire a third-party
>> caterer, or else have the guests bring the food themselves (known as
>> a potluck dinner).
> And hence the request for clarification as to what a "public diner
> room" might be.
>
In my case a "public dinner room" is a place that people can dinner, but 
there is no service, no food, etc. There are only tables and waste bins. 
The people bring their food and drink. Eventually there could be a 
drinking water source and kitchen.

It's something like "picnic site" indoor ;-)


amenity=community_centre is not appropiate for me, I think, because it's 
for "events and festivities" and "public dinner room" is _only_ for 
eating something in lunch and dinner hours.

It's very rare, but in my local zone (Mallorca, Spain) it's usually a 
place in hiking routes, in houses (eventually these houses could be as 
hostel or related amenity).


Another suggestion?
Thanks,
Xan.

PS: What is the "information" WMS in OSM web page? I can't display the 
info of the items of the map.


From ve6srv at gmail.com  Sat Apr 14 01:55:33 2012
From: ve6srv at gmail.com (James Ewen)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 18:55:33 -0600
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Public dinner room?
In-Reply-To: <4F886AF8.60204@telefonica.net>
References: <4F872B24.1010007@telefonica.net>
	<CAMexNt6xV31YbUzzX=i8x_K-f6mGDmvkG6j3eSwC6u0rbj9Mkg@mail.gmail.com>
	<006f1944-adbf-43b8-9d94-27d565bfe6a1@email.android.com>
	<CAMexNt557R7iNDQeWhp_QUf0AtYuoRT=NrZ+2Ei70e-7EO_aGw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F886AF8.60204@telefonica.net>
Message-ID: <CAMexNt6bQHD35EGeKw-2LbsG5GHWjsAOFJT1LV_iJy5hy9ucvA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Xan <dxpublica at telefonica.net> wrote:

> In my case a "public dinner room" is a place that people can dinner, but
> there is no service, no food, etc. There are only tables and waste bins. The
> people bring their food and drink. Eventually there could be a drinking
> water source and kitchen.
>
> It's something like "picnic site" indoor ;-)

Hmm, nothing like that in western Canada, nor western USA that I have
ever seen. We have picnic shelters where you might find picnic tables
under a roofed semi enclosed shelter, and possibly a wood stove, but
nothing where you would find tables for the general public to
congregate for lunch.

There are private "lunch rooms" in many businesses where the employees
can eat their lunch. Food courts are also found around here in
shopping malls which are similar to what you describe, but will have
many different fast food franchises around the area where people could
purchase food.

Who owns the public dinner room, who pays to maintain and clean the building?

-- 
James
VE6SRV


From dxpublica at telefonica.net  Sat Apr 14 14:56:09 2012
From: dxpublica at telefonica.net (Xan)
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 15:56:09 +0200
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Public dinner room?
In-Reply-To: <CAMexNt6bQHD35EGeKw-2LbsG5GHWjsAOFJT1LV_iJy5hy9ucvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F872B24.1010007@telefonica.net>
	<CAMexNt6xV31YbUzzX=i8x_K-f6mGDmvkG6j3eSwC6u0rbj9Mkg@mail.gmail.com>
	<006f1944-adbf-43b8-9d94-27d565bfe6a1@email.android.com>
	<CAMexNt557R7iNDQeWhp_QUf0AtYuoRT=NrZ+2Ei70e-7EO_aGw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F886AF8.60204@telefonica.net>
	<CAMexNt6bQHD35EGeKw-2LbsG5GHWjsAOFJT1LV_iJy5hy9ucvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F8981F9.7000309@telefonica.net>

Al 14/04/12 02:55, En/na James Ewen ha escrit:
> On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Xan<dxpublica at telefonica.net>  wrote:
>
>> In my case a "public dinner room" is a place that people can dinner, but
>> there is no service, no food, etc. There are only tables and waste bins. The
>> people bring their food and drink. Eventually there could be a drinking
>> water source and kitchen.
>>
>> It's something like "picnic site" indoor ;-)
> Hmm, nothing like that in western Canada, nor western USA that I have
> ever seen. We have picnic shelters where you might find picnic tables
> under a roofed semi enclosed shelter, and possibly a wood stove, but
> nothing where you would find tables for the general public to
> congregate for lunch.
>
> There are private "lunch rooms" in many businesses where the employees
> can eat their lunch. Food courts are also found around here in
> shopping malls which are similar to what you describe, but will have
> many different fast food franchises around the area where people could
> purchase food.
>
> Who owns the public dinner room, who pays to maintain and clean the building?
>
The public dinner room usually is belong to Goverment (Regional 
Goverment) or the Church or benefic institutions. So there are public 
and private institutions but the use is public.


thanks,




From jcg.sturdy at gmail.com  Sat Apr 14 18:54:03 2012
From: jcg.sturdy at gmail.com (John Sturdy)
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 18:54:03 +0100
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Public dinner room?
In-Reply-To: <4F872B24.1010007@telefonica.net>
References: <4F872B24.1010007@telefonica.net>
Message-ID: <CAFJf9KMi_jwg6-uP_c4LZrT2x8Wxrrvh1eZ2ES+g-3JraZ2O5g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Xan <dxpublica at telefonica.net> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> How to tag a public dinner room?

No-one's yet suggested a tagging for this, so I'll try starting one...

It should probably be under "amenity=" (although picnic sites are done
as "tourism=picnic_site", but this one doesn't sound like it's
specifically a tourist facility).

We could either use "amenity=dining_room", or "amenity=dining_area"
with "location=indoor" (or "location=covered" if there's a roof but no
walls); the latter would be more flexible, also allowing for other
locations such as outdoor (when it's a dining area but not a touristic
picnic site).

The number of people the room can accomodate (number of seats,
usually) would probably be "capacity="

The organization providing the facility would probably be done with
the "operator" key.

"location", "capacity", and "operator" are well-established key names.

Other existing tags that may be relevant include "opening_hours",
"access", and "wheelchair" (the last of those being used to indicate
whether access to the area is step-free or not).

__John


From dxpublica at telefonica.net  Sat Apr 14 22:03:13 2012
From: dxpublica at telefonica.net (Xan)
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 23:03:13 +0200
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Public dinner room?
In-Reply-To: <CAFJf9KMi_jwg6-uP_c4LZrT2x8Wxrrvh1eZ2ES+g-3JraZ2O5g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F872B24.1010007@telefonica.net>
	<CAFJf9KMi_jwg6-uP_c4LZrT2x8Wxrrvh1eZ2ES+g-3JraZ2O5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F89E611.5050401@telefonica.net>

Al 14/04/12 19:54, En/na John Sturdy ha escrit:
> On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Xan<dxpublica at telefonica.net>  wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> How to tag a public dinner room?
> No-one's yet suggested a tagging for this, so I'll try starting one...
>
> It should probably be under "amenity=" (although picnic sites are done
> as "tourism=picnic_site", but this one doesn't sound like it's
> specifically a tourist facility).
>
> We could either use "amenity=dining_room", or "amenity=dining_area"
> with "location=indoor" (or "location=covered" if there's a roof but no
> walls); the latter would be more flexible, also allowing for other
> locations such as outdoor (when it's a dining area but not a touristic
> picnic site).

I will be great!!!
amenity is more convenient, I think.
amenity="eating_area"? because you could dinner or even lunch, or ...
location options are good for me


Thanks,
Xan.
>
> The number of people the room can accomodate (number of seats,
> usually) would probably be "capacity="
>
> The organization providing the facility would probably be done with
> the "operator" key.
>
> "location", "capacity", and "operator" are well-established key names.
>
> Other existing tags that may be relevant include "opening_hours",
> "access", and "wheelchair" (the last of those being used to indicate
> whether access to the area is step-free or not).
>
> __John
>
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
> newbies at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies



From jcg.sturdy at gmail.com  Sat Apr 14 22:14:39 2012
From: jcg.sturdy at gmail.com (John Sturdy)
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 22:14:39 +0100
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Public dinner room?
In-Reply-To: <4F89E611.5050401@telefonica.net>
References: <4F872B24.1010007@telefonica.net>
	<CAFJf9KMi_jwg6-uP_c4LZrT2x8Wxrrvh1eZ2ES+g-3JraZ2O5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F89E611.5050401@telefonica.net>
Message-ID: <CAFJf9KPvGqLZBmQA34NLzBdN=WJWsKffPNs_HZXS4t7ZmhiTUw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 10:03 PM, Xan <dxpublica at telefonica.net> wrote:
> Al 14/04/12 19:54, En/na John Sturdy ha escrit:
>> could either use "amenity=dining_room", or "amenity=dining_area"
> amenity="eating_area"? because you could dinner or even lunch, or ...

Yes, I think "eating_area" is the best of these.

__John


From john at jfeldredge.com  Sun Apr 15 00:27:42 2012
From: john at jfeldredge.com (John F. Eldredge)
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 18:27:42 -0500
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Public dinner room?
In-Reply-To: <CAFJf9KPvGqLZBmQA34NLzBdN=WJWsKffPNs_HZXS4t7ZmhiTUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F872B24.1010007@telefonica.net>
	<CAFJf9KMi_jwg6-uP_c4LZrT2x8Wxrrvh1eZ2ES+g-3JraZ2O5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F89E611.5050401@telefonica.net>
	<CAFJf9KPvGqLZBmQA34NLzBdN=WJWsKffPNs_HZXS4t7ZmhiTUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d71243d-d058-496c-986e-724e2bb71c36@email.android.com>

John Sturdy <jcg.sturdy at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 10:03 PM, Xan <dxpublica at telefonica.net>
> wrote:
> > Al 14/04/12 19:54, En/na John Sturdy ha escrit:
> >> could either use "amenity=dining_room", or "amenity=dining_area"
> > amenity="eating_area"? because you could dinner or even lunch, or
> ...
> 
> Yes, I think "eating_area" is the best of these.
> 

I would go for eating_area, rather than dining_room or dining_area.  To me, "dining" implies a more formal situation than "eating", and it sounds like these facilities are fairly informal.

-- 
John F. Eldredge --  john at jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria


From aspendel at gmail.com  Sun Apr 15 06:47:50 2012
From: aspendel at gmail.com (Aspen Swartz)
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 22:47:50 -0700
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Public dinner room?
In-Reply-To: <4F89E611.5050401@telefonica.net>
References: <4F872B24.1010007@telefonica.net>
	<CAFJf9KMi_jwg6-uP_c4LZrT2x8Wxrrvh1eZ2ES+g-3JraZ2O5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F89E611.5050401@telefonica.net>
Message-ID: <CA+UuV1A2V9hi5BFisX-eQe2piiv6d3FwYQNfsDCK=vfZG0gx4w@mail.gmail.com>

In my part of the world we call that a "picnic shelter".

Aspen

On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Xan <dxpublica at telefonica.net> wrote:
> Al 14/04/12 19:54, En/na John Sturdy ha escrit:
>
>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Xan<dxpublica at telefonica.net> ?wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> How to tag a public dinner room?
>>
>> No-one's yet suggested a tagging for this, so I'll try starting one...
>>
>> It should probably be under "amenity=" (although picnic sites are done
>> as "tourism=picnic_site", but this one doesn't sound like it's
>> specifically a tourist facility).
>>
>> We could either use "amenity=dining_room", or "amenity=dining_area"
>> with "location=indoor" (or "location=covered" if there's a roof but no
>> walls); the latter would be more flexible, also allowing for other
>> locations such as outdoor (when it's a dining area but not a touristic
>> picnic site).
>
>
> I will be great!!!
> amenity is more convenient, I think.
> amenity="eating_area"? because you could dinner or even lunch, or ...
> location options are good for me
>
>
> Thanks,
> Xan.
>
>>
>> The number of people the room can accomodate (number of seats,
>> usually) would probably be "capacity="
>>
>> The organization providing the facility would probably be done with
>> the "operator" key.
>>
>> "location", "capacity", and "operator" are well-established key names.
>>
>> Other existing tags that may be relevant include "opening_hours",
>> "access", and "wheelchair" (the last of those being used to indicate
>> whether access to the area is step-free or not).
>>
>> __John
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> newbies mailing list
>> newbies at openstreetmap.org
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
> newbies at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies


From dxpublica at telefonica.net  Sun Apr 15 10:12:39 2012
From: dxpublica at telefonica.net (Xan)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 11:12:39 +0200
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Public dinner room?
In-Reply-To: <CA+UuV1A2V9hi5BFisX-eQe2piiv6d3FwYQNfsDCK=vfZG0gx4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F872B24.1010007@telefonica.net>
	<CAFJf9KMi_jwg6-uP_c4LZrT2x8Wxrrvh1eZ2ES+g-3JraZ2O5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F89E611.5050401@telefonica.net>
	<CA+UuV1A2V9hi5BFisX-eQe2piiv6d3FwYQNfsDCK=vfZG0gx4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F8A9107.1010302@telefonica.net>

Al 15/04/12 07:47, En/na Aspen Swartz ha escrit:
> In my part of the world we call that a "picnic shelter".

Even if the "picnic shelter" is in a room of a building (that's my case)?

Xan.


From dxpublica at telefonica.net  Sun Apr 15 10:15:17 2012
From: dxpublica at telefonica.net (Xan)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 11:15:17 +0200
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Public dinner room?
In-Reply-To: <CAFJf9KPvGqLZBmQA34NLzBdN=WJWsKffPNs_HZXS4t7ZmhiTUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F872B24.1010007@telefonica.net>
	<CAFJf9KMi_jwg6-uP_c4LZrT2x8Wxrrvh1eZ2ES+g-3JraZ2O5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F89E611.5050401@telefonica.net>
	<CAFJf9KPvGqLZBmQA34NLzBdN=WJWsKffPNs_HZXS4t7ZmhiTUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F8A91A5.3090709@telefonica.net>

Al 14/04/12 23:14, En/na John Sturdy ha escrit:
> On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 10:03 PM, Xan<dxpublica at telefonica.net>  wrote:
>> Al 14/04/12 19:54, En/na John Sturdy ha escrit:
>>> could either use "amenity=dining_room", or "amenity=dining_area"
>> amenity="eating_area"? because you could dinner or even lunch, or ...
> Yes, I think "eating_area" is the best of these.
> m
> __John
>
> ____________________

I should have 2 photo of distinct eating_areas in which I stayed. I will 
search it. One photo is not-digital (old cameras, yes ;), so I will 
spend a little time to find, scan and pass to you.

Xan.


From dxpublica at telefonica.net  Sun Apr 15 10:19:18 2012
From: dxpublica at telefonica.net (Xan)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 11:19:18 +0200
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Public dinner room?
In-Reply-To: <CAFJf9KPvGqLZBmQA34NLzBdN=WJWsKffPNs_HZXS4t7ZmhiTUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F872B24.1010007@telefonica.net>
	<CAFJf9KMi_jwg6-uP_c4LZrT2x8Wxrrvh1eZ2ES+g-3JraZ2O5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F89E611.5050401@telefonica.net>
	<CAFJf9KPvGqLZBmQA34NLzBdN=WJWsKffPNs_HZXS4t7ZmhiTUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F8A9296.7040506@telefonica.net>

Al 14/04/12 23:14, En/na John Sturdy ha escrit:
> On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 10:03 PM, Xan<dxpublica at telefonica.net>  wrote:
>> Al 14/04/12 19:54, En/na John Sturdy ha escrit:
>>> could either use "amenity=dining_room", or "amenity=dining_area"
>> amenity="eating_area"? because you could dinner or even lunch, or ...
> Yes, I think "eating_area" is the best of these.
>
>

John, what about "eating_place"?

@All: Do you think it's best or worst than eating_area

A flash suggestion of myself ;-)

Xan.


From dxpublica at telefonica.net  Sun Apr 15 10:43:03 2012
From: dxpublica at telefonica.net (Xan)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 11:43:03 +0200
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Public dinner room?
In-Reply-To: <4F8A91A5.3090709@telefonica.net>
References: <4F872B24.1010007@telefonica.net>
	<CAFJf9KMi_jwg6-uP_c4LZrT2x8Wxrrvh1eZ2ES+g-3JraZ2O5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F89E611.5050401@telefonica.net>
	<CAFJf9KPvGqLZBmQA34NLzBdN=WJWsKffPNs_HZXS4t7ZmhiTUw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F8A91A5.3090709@telefonica.net>
Message-ID: <4F8A9827.50309@telefonica.net>


> I should have 2 photo of distinct eating_areas in which I stayed. I 
> will search it. One photo is not-digital (old cameras, yes ;), so I 
> will spend a little time to find, scan and pass to you.
>
> Xan.

Temporally, I found in google images a photos which could serve you:

This [http://escavallers.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/imagen-7171.jpg] is 
a image of the "Menjador dels Peregrins" of Lluc [http://www.lluc.net], 
Mallorca, Spain 
[http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.822559&lon=2.885173&zoom=18&layers=M]. 
In one of the rooms of this building 
[http://escavallers.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/imagen-6675.jpg], you 
enter with your food and dinner, lunch, ...


so
amenity = eating_area
operator = Bisbat de Mallorca (Catholic Church)
location=indoor
wheelchair = limited



Another is this 
[http://www.conselldemallorca.net/media/14742/SonAmer_menjador.jpg]. 
It's a eating_area of Consell de Mallorca, a Regional Government. The 
eating_area is belong to the "Refugi de Son Amer" a hiking place for 
relax (I don't know how do you say in english) (stop the track and relax 
until the next march).

Another is this 
[http://www.conselldemallorca.cat/media/14753/Tossals_menjador.jpg] 
which has a kitchen. So fireplace=yes in this eating_area.


More or less, do you understand what I refer to eating_area: there are 
only tables. People bring food and drink. Eventually it has a kitchen 
(fireplace). And it's public. No one is not_allowed to entry.

Thanks,
Xan.


From john at jfeldredge.com  Sun Apr 15 13:59:34 2012
From: john at jfeldredge.com (John F. Eldredge)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 07:59:34 -0500
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Public dinner room?
In-Reply-To: <CA+UuV1A2V9hi5BFisX-eQe2piiv6d3FwYQNfsDCK=vfZG0gx4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F872B24.1010007@telefonica.net>
	<CAFJf9KMi_jwg6-uP_c4LZrT2x8Wxrrvh1eZ2ES+g-3JraZ2O5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F89E611.5050401@telefonica.net>
	<CA+UuV1A2V9hi5BFisX-eQe2piiv6d3FwYQNfsDCK=vfZG0gx4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bd301b5c-8107-4628-846a-651d5a52f371@email.android.com>

Aspen Swartz <aspendel at gmail.com> wrote:

> In my part of the world we call that a "picnic shelter".
> 
> Aspen
> 
> On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Xan <dxpublica at telefonica.net> wrote:
> > Al 14/04/12 19:54, En/na John Sturdy ha escrit:
> >
> >> On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Xan<dxpublica at telefonica.net>
> ?wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> How to tag a public dinner room?
> >>
> >> No-one's yet suggested a tagging for this, so I'll try starting
> one...
> >>
> >> It should probably be under "amenity=" (although picnic sites are
> done
> >> as "tourism=picnic_site", but this one doesn't sound like it's
> >> specifically a tourist facility).
> >>
> >> We could either use "amenity=dining_room", or "amenity=dining_area"
> >> with "location=indoor" (or "location=covered" if there's a roof but
> no
> >> walls); the latter would be more flexible, also allowing for other
> >> locations such as outdoor (when it's a dining area but not a
> touristic
> >> picnic site).
> >
> >
> > I will be great!!!
> > amenity is more convenient, I think.
> > amenity="eating_area"? because you could dinner or even lunch, or
> ...
> > location options are good for me
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Xan.
> >
> >>
> >> The number of people the room can accomodate (number of seats,
> >> usually) would probably be "capacity="
> >>
> >> The organization providing the facility would probably be done with
> >> the "operator" key.
> >>
> >> "location", "capacity", and "operator" are well-established key
> names.
> >>
> >> Other existing tags that may be relevant include "opening_hours",
> >> "access", and "wheelchair" (the last of those being used to
> indicate
> >> whether access to the area is step-free or not).
> >>
> >> __John
> >>

To me, "picnic shelter" implies a pavilion, with a roof but open on all sides.  The facilities described in this thread are apparently inside regular buildings.

-- 
John F. Eldredge --  john at jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria


From ve6srv at gmail.com  Sun Apr 15 18:24:03 2012
From: ve6srv at gmail.com (James Ewen)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 11:24:03 -0600
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Public dinner room?
In-Reply-To: <4F8A9107.1010302@telefonica.net>
References: <4F872B24.1010007@telefonica.net>
	<CAFJf9KMi_jwg6-uP_c4LZrT2x8Wxrrvh1eZ2ES+g-3JraZ2O5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F89E611.5050401@telefonica.net>
	<CA+UuV1A2V9hi5BFisX-eQe2piiv6d3FwYQNfsDCK=vfZG0gx4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F8A9107.1010302@telefonica.net>
Message-ID: <CAMexNt7aOGq_JTyr1Cy1-zhqqZQGzbOj0QTe=PnkjZUwa0bMZA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 3:12 AM, Xan <dxpublica at telefonica.net> wrote:
> Al 15/04/12 07:47, En/na Aspen Swartz ha escrit:
>
>> In my part of the world we call that a "picnic shelter".
>
> Even if the "picnic shelter" is in a room of a building (that's my case)?

I doubt that you will find a global solution. There are many distinct
items that are unique to specific areas of the world. In those areas,
tags to describe those items need to be created.

Here in Canada we have roads that are built each winter over the
frozen muskeg and lakes. These ice roads only exist for a few months
each year while the temperatures are low enough to support heavy
traffic. These roads are rebuilt each year in the approximate same
place, and are extremely important routes used to haul heavy
commodities to the northern communities served by them. Without these
roads many communities would not be able to get a lot of their
supplies.

Warmer temperate and equatorial countries would never use these tags,
but they exist to describe types of roads we have here. Pick a tag,
and stick with it. If you use it enough and others pick up on it,
someone might start making maps that show these public dining rooms.
These are not picnic_shelters, nor would I consider a picnic_shelter a
public_dining_room... there's enough distinction to require unique
tags.

But then again, this is just my humble opinion.

-- 
James
VE6SRV


From techlady at techlady.com  Sun Apr 15 18:53:29 2012
From: techlady at techlady.com (Charlotte Wolter)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 10:53:29 -0700
Subject: [OSM-newbies] How to draw land-use areas
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415104922.0fa93958@mail.adelphia.net>

Hello all,

         In the process of remapping work by "blars," I've come 
across a way to draw land use that is new to me. He draws the 
land-use areas out to the middle of the streets. For example, if he 
is specifying a city block as "residential," he draws the outline 
down the middle of the surrounding streets, and all the points in the 
outline intersect with the points that create the street.
         Is this the way land sue should be done?

Charlotte


Charlotte Wolter
927 18th Street Suite A
Santa Monica, California
90403
+1-310-597-4040
techlady at techlady.com
Skype: thetechlady

The Four Internet Freedoms
Freedom to visit any site on the Internet
Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal
Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network
Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that 
would affect the first three freedoms.
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From aspendel at gmail.com  Sun Apr 15 20:50:43 2012
From: aspendel at gmail.com (Aspen Swartz)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 12:50:43 -0700
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Public dinner room?
In-Reply-To: <CAMexNt7aOGq_JTyr1Cy1-zhqqZQGzbOj0QTe=PnkjZUwa0bMZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F872B24.1010007@telefonica.net>
	<CAFJf9KMi_jwg6-uP_c4LZrT2x8Wxrrvh1eZ2ES+g-3JraZ2O5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F89E611.5050401@telefonica.net>
	<CA+UuV1A2V9hi5BFisX-eQe2piiv6d3FwYQNfsDCK=vfZG0gx4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F8A9107.1010302@telefonica.net>
	<CAMexNt7aOGq_JTyr1Cy1-zhqqZQGzbOj0QTe=PnkjZUwa0bMZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+UuV1Aea1tKj9hbWHOnQN-P+YQFyL2fwy6p21brejy48SCyuw@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with James.  In my part of the world, we simply don't have
exactly the same type of thing as this "public dinner room".  So why
not tag it in the language of the area it's in, with the words that
locals use to describe it?

Aspen

On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 10:24 AM, James Ewen <ve6srv at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 3:12 AM, Xan <dxpublica at telefonica.net> wrote:
>> Al 15/04/12 07:47, En/na Aspen Swartz ha escrit:
>>
>>> In my part of the world we call that a "picnic shelter".
>>
>> Even if the "picnic shelter" is in a room of a building (that's my case)?
>
> I doubt that you will find a global solution. There are many distinct
> items that are unique to specific areas of the world. In those areas,
> tags to describe those items need to be created.
>
> Here in Canada we have roads that are built each winter over the
> frozen muskeg and lakes. These ice roads only exist for a few months
> each year while the temperatures are low enough to support heavy
> traffic. These roads are rebuilt each year in the approximate same
> place, and are extremely important routes used to haul heavy
> commodities to the northern communities served by them. Without these
> roads many communities would not be able to get a lot of their
> supplies.
>
> Warmer temperate and equatorial countries would never use these tags,
> but they exist to describe types of roads we have here. Pick a tag,
> and stick with it. If you use it enough and others pick up on it,
> someone might start making maps that show these public dining rooms.
> These are not picnic_shelters, nor would I consider a picnic_shelter a
> public_dining_room... there's enough distinction to require unique
> tags.
>
> But then again, this is just my humble opinion.
>
> --
> James
> VE6SRV
>
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
> newbies at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies


From r.h.michel+osm at gmail.com  Sun Apr 15 21:41:08 2012
From: r.h.michel+osm at gmail.com (Renaud MICHEL)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 22:41:08 +0200
Subject: [OSM-newbies] How to draw land-use areas
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415104922.0fa93958@mail.adelphia.net>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415104922.0fa93958@mail.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <201204152241.08142.r.h.michel+osm@gmail.com>

Hello
On dimanche 15 avril 2012 at 19:53, Charlotte Wolter wrote :
>          In the process of remapping work by "blars," I've come 
> across a way to draw land use that is new to me. He draws the 
> land-use areas out to the middle of the streets. For example, if he 
> is specifying a city block as "residential," he draws the outline 
> down the middle of the surrounding streets, and all the points in the 
> outline intersect with the points that create the street.
>          Is this the way land sue should be done?

Non, I think this is wrong, either the landuse include the road or it 
doesn't, but it would be strange if it included only half of it.

And with that you would end up with incorrect geometry if you have two 
different landuse on each side of the road, if you use the road as the 
border for the areas they will end up sharing a border, which they don't as 
there is the road between them.

Of course, there are some case where it can be different, like country or 
regional borders which may actually be defined as being in the center of the 
road (I know it happens for rivers, I don't know if the case exists with 
roads), but those are not modelled as areas and it seems to me more the 
exception than the rule.

-- 
Renaud Michel


From techlady at techlady.com  Sun Apr 15 22:14:28 2012
From: techlady at techlady.com (Charlotte Wolter)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 14:14:28 -0700
Subject: [OSM-newbies] How to draw land-use areas
In-Reply-To: <201204152241.08142.r.h.michel+osm@gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415104922.0fa93958@mail.adelphia.net>
	<201204152241.08142.r.h.michel+osm@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415141200.0fa96de0@mail.adelphia.net>

Michel,

         Thanks! That seems very sensible.
         What he did, most often, was to put the margins of land use 
down the middle of the street. But, the street is not, for example, a 
residential area.
         Also, because he had the margins of land use intersect with 
the street, you would have to recreate the street if the land-use 
margins changed.

--C

At 01:41 PM 4/15/2012, you wrote:
>Hello
>On dimanche 15 avril 2012 at 19:53, Charlotte Wolter wrote :
> >          In the process of remapping work by "blars," I've come
> > across a way to draw land use that is new to me. He draws the
> > land-use areas out to the middle of the streets. For example, if he
> > is specifying a city block as "residential," he draws the outline
> > down the middle of the surrounding streets, and all the points in the
> > outline intersect with the points that create the street.
> >          Is this the way land sue should be done?
>
>Non, I think this is wrong, either the landuse include the road or it
>doesn't, but it would be strange if it included only half of it.
>
>And with that you would end up with incorrect geometry if you have two
>different landuse on each side of the road, if you use the road as the
>border for the areas they will end up sharing a border, which they don't as
>there is the road between them.
>
>Of course, there are some case where it can be different, like country or
>regional borders which may actually be defined as being in the center of the
>road (I know it happens for rivers, I don't know if the case exists with
>roads), but those are not modelled as areas and it seems to me more the
>exception than the rule.
>
>--
>Renaud Michel
>
>_______________________________________________
>newbies mailing list
>newbies at openstreetmap.org
>http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies

Charlotte Wolter
927 18th Street Suite A
Santa Monica, California
90403
+1-310-597-4040
techlady at techlady.com
Skype: thetechlady

The Four Internet Freedoms
Freedom to visit any site on the Internet
Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal
Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network
Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that 
would affect the first three freedoms.
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From winfixit at gmail.com  Sun Apr 15 22:56:03 2012
From: winfixit at gmail.com (Jo)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 23:56:03 +0200
Subject: [OSM-newbies] How to draw land-use areas
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415141200.0fa96de0@mail.adelphia.net>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415104922.0fa93958@mail.adelphia.net>
	<201204152241.08142.r.h.michel+osm@gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415141200.0fa96de0@mail.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <CAJ6DwMDm59K9zoo3Hu8pSTpF4=DbWHWcPW8yCM9ZkCSEqyK-YQ@mail.gmail.com>

Reusing the nodes of the ways seems like the correct way to define landuse
when the landuse is different on both sides of the street. If not done that
way, there are ugly with stripes/triangles between the roads and the
landuse when plotting the map at high zoom scale.

Landuse is drawn first, the road network is drawn over it. So when the
landuse is the same on both sides of the road, there is no need to draw
more than one landuse. The road simply goes over it. No problem.

Suppose I'm drawing a (large) forest. Then I draw landuse around the
treeline and roads/tracks/footways across the forest. No need to draw many
small forests. The same goes for residential/commercial or industrial
landuse.

Just my 2 cents,

Polyglot

2012/4/15 Charlotte Wolter <techlady at techlady.com>

>  Michel,
>
> **        **Thanks! That seems very sensible.
> **        **What he did, most often, was to put the margins of land use
> down the middle of the street. But, the street is not, for example, a
> residential area.
> **        **Also, because he had the margins of land use intersect with
> the street, you would have to recreate the street if the land-use margins
> changed.
>
> --C
>
>
> At 01:41 PM 4/15/2012, you wrote:
>
> Hello
> On dimanche 15 avril 2012 at 19:53, Charlotte Wolter wrote :
> >          In the process of remapping work by "blars," I've come
> > across a way to draw land use that is new to me. He draws the
> > land-use areas out to the middle of the streets. For example, if he
> > is specifying a city block as "residential," he draws the outline
> > down the middle of the surrounding streets, and all the points in the
> > outline intersect with the points that create the street.
> >          Is this the way land sue should be done?
>
> Non, I think this is wrong, either the landuse include the road or it
> doesn't, but it would be strange if it included only half of it.
>
> And with that you would end up with incorrect geometry if you have two
> different landuse on each side of the road, if you use the road as the
> border for the areas they will end up sharing a border, which they don't
> as
> there is the road between them.
>
> Of course, there are some case where it can be different, like country or
> regional borders which may actually be defined as being in the center of
> the
> road (I know it happens for rivers, I don't know if the case exists with
> roads), but those are not modelled as areas and it seems to me more the
> exception than the rule.
>
> --
> Renaud Michel
>
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
> newbies at openstreetmap.org
>  http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies
>
> **
>
> ** Charlotte Wolter
>
> 927 18th Street Suite A
> Santa Monica, California
> 90403
> +1-310-597-4040
> techlady at techlady.com
> Skype: thetechlady
>
> *The Four Internet Freedoms*
> Freedom to visit any site on the Internet
> Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal
> Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network
> Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would
> affect the first three freedoms.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
> newbies at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies
>
>
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From john at jfeldredge.com  Sun Apr 15 23:48:26 2012
From: john at jfeldredge.com (John F. Eldredge)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 17:48:26 -0500
Subject: [OSM-newbies] How to draw land-use areas
In-Reply-To: <CAJ6DwMDm59K9zoo3Hu8pSTpF4=DbWHWcPW8yCM9ZkCSEqyK-YQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415104922.0fa93958@mail.adelphia.net>
	<201204152241.08142.r.h.michel+osm@gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415141200.0fa96de0@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAJ6DwMDm59K9zoo3Hu8pSTpF4=DbWHWcPW8yCM9ZkCSEqyK-YQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <89d8de7b-28ec-48b6-a505-cafe7bd74ad2@email.android.com>

Jo <winfixit at gmail.com> wrote:

> Reusing the nodes of the ways seems like the correct way to define
> landuse
> when the landuse is different on both sides of the street. If not done
> that
> way, there are ugly with stripes/triangles between the roads and the
> landuse when plotting the map at high zoom scale.
> 
> Landuse is drawn first, the road network is drawn over it. So when the
> landuse is the same on both sides of the road, there is no need to
> draw
> more than one landuse. The road simply goes over it. No problem.
> 
> Suppose I'm drawing a (large) forest. Then I draw landuse around the
> treeline and roads/tracks/footways across the forest. No need to draw
> many
> small forests. The same goes for residential/commercial or industrial
> landuse.
> 
> Just my 2 cents,
> 
> Polyglot
> 

If you have a divided street with a center median, would each landuse extend to the center of that median?

For certain circumstances, where the right-of-way is quite broad (for example, at motorway interchanges), it would make sense to record the right-of-way as an area, with its own landuse tag.  The proposed landuse=highway would be the logical value to use.  I can think of a couple of examples here in Nashville, Tennessee, USA, where an interchange is about a kilometer across.

-- 
John F. Eldredge --  john at jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria


From techlady at techlady.com  Mon Apr 16 01:12:28 2012
From: techlady at techlady.com (Charlotte Wolter)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 17:12:28 -0700
Subject: [OSM-newbies] How to draw land-use areas
In-Reply-To: <CAJ6DwMDm59K9zoo3Hu8pSTpF4=DbWHWcPW8yCM9ZkCSEqyK-YQ@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415104922.0fa93958@mail.adelphia.net>
	<201204152241.08142.r.h.michel+osm@gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415141200.0fa96de0@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAJ6DwMDm59K9zoo3Hu8pSTpF4=DbWHWcPW8yCM9ZkCSEqyK-YQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415171048.0fa97bf8@mail.adelphia.net>


Yes, I agree, but this guy is drawing the 
margins, not just in the middle of the road, but 
linked to the road, using the same points as the 
road. Also, he did this even when the land use is 
different on both sides of the road. It makes 
changing the road and/or changing land use a real bitch.

--C


At 02:56 PM 4/15/2012, you wrote:
>Reusing the nodes of the ways seems like the 
>correct way to define landuse when the landuse 
>is different on both sides of the street. If not 
>done that way, there are ugly with 
>stripes/triangles between the roads and the 
>landuse when plotting the map at high zoom scale.
>
>Landuse is drawn first, the road network is 
>drawn over it. So when the landuse is the same 
>on both sides of the road, there is no need to 
>draw more than one landuse. The road simply goes over it. No problem.
>
>Suppose I'm drawing a (large) forest. Then I 
>draw landuse around the treeline and 
>roads/tracks/footways across the forest. No need 
>to draw many small forests. The same goes for 
>residential/commercial or industrial landuse.
>
>Just my 2 cents,
>
>Polyglot
>
>2012/4/15 Charlotte Wolter 
><<mailto:techlady at techlady.com>techlady at techlady.com>
>Michel,
>
>? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Thanks! That seems very sensible.
>? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? What he did, most often, was to 
>put the margins of land use down the middle of 
>the street. But, the street is not, for example, a residential area.
>? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Also, because he had the margins 
>of land use intersect with the street, you would 
>have to recreate the street if the land-use margins changed.
>
>--C
>
>
>At 01:41 PM 4/15/2012, you wrote:
>>Hello
>>On dimanche 15 avril 2012 at 19:53, Charlotte Wolter wrote :
>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  In the process of remapping work by "blars," I've come
>> > across a way to draw land use that is new to me. He draws the
>> > land-use areas out to the middle of the streets. For example, if he
>> > is specifying a city block as "residential," he draws the outline
>> > down the middle of the surrounding streets, and all the points in the
>> > outline intersect with the points that create the street.
>> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  Is this the way land sue should be done?
>>
>>Non, I think this is wrong, either the landuse include the road or it
>>doesn't, but it would be strange if it included only half of it.
>>
>>And with that you would end up with incorrect geometry if you have two
>>different landuse on each side of the road, if you use the road as the
>>border for the areas they will end up sharing a border, which they don't as
>>there is the road between them.
>>
>>Of course, there are some case where it can be different, like country or
>>regional borders which may actually be defined as being in the center of the
>>road (I know it happens for rivers, I don't know if the case exists with
>>roads), but those are not modelled as areas and it seems to me more the
>>exception than the rule.
>>
>>--
>>Renaud Michel
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>newbies mailing list
>><mailto:newbies at openstreetmap.org>newbies at openstreetmap.org
>>http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies
>
>Charlotte Wolter
>
>927 18th Street Suite A
>Santa Monica, California
>90403
><tel:%2B1-310-597-4040>+1-310-597-4040
><mailto:techlady at techlady.com>techlady at techlady.com
>Skype: thetechlady
>
>The Four Internet Freedoms
>Freedom to visit any site on the Internet
>Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal
>Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network
>Freedom to know all the terms of a service, 
>particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>newbies mailing list
><mailto:newbies at openstreetmap.org>newbies at openstreetmap.org
>http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>newbies mailing list
>newbies at openstreetmap.org
>http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies

Charlotte Wolter
927 18th Street Suite A
Santa Monica, California
90403
+1-310-597-4040
techlady at techlady.com
Skype: thetechlady

The Four Internet Freedoms
Freedom to visit any site on the Internet
Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal
Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network
Freedom to know all the terms of a service, 
particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms.
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From ve6srv at gmail.com  Mon Apr 16 01:57:06 2012
From: ve6srv at gmail.com (James Ewen)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 18:57:06 -0600
Subject: [OSM-newbies] How to draw land-use areas
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415171048.0fa97bf8@mail.adelphia.net>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415104922.0fa93958@mail.adelphia.net>
	<201204152241.08142.r.h.michel+osm@gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415141200.0fa96de0@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAJ6DwMDm59K9zoo3Hu8pSTpF4=DbWHWcPW8yCM9ZkCSEqyK-YQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415171048.0fa97bf8@mail.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <CAMexNt5QxS9gt_nu70vj50Lofh=VPmO+MJDM1PXhPcQSyA4o2w@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Charlotte Wolter <techlady at techlady.com> wrote:

> Yes, I agree, but this guy is drawing the margins, not just in the middle of
> the road, but linked to the road, using the same points as the road. Also,
> he did this even when the land use is different on both sides of the road.
> It makes changing the road and/or changing land use a real bitch.

I would think the opposite... If the road is in the wrong location,
and you move the nodes that define the road, the land use on either
side is updated automatically. If the land use polygons were
completely separate, and you changed the geometry of the road, you
would then have to change the geometry of the land use polygons to
match the road geometry.

It's all in how you look at the map, and the mapping concepts. OSM has
no overarching body that says "You will map things this way!", so
everyone does things the way they feel is best. This can lead to
people mapping things, others ripping it up, and then an editing war
ensues.

My personal feeling is that if you're going to map landuse to the
physical edge of the road, then you should create the road as a
polygon to show the edge of the road sharing the edge of the landuse.
Hmm, let's see around here we would need to put the edge of the
landuse polygon on the edge of the privately owned land, and then
create a polygon for the government owned road allowance, and within
that road allowance, draw another polygon defining the physical space
occupied by the road surface.

The front of my city lot, which looks to be my front lawn actually has
6 feet of grass that belongs to the county, which is used for
utilities. Should I draw a residential land use polygon to the edge of
my property, then a county allowance polygon followed by a polygon
defining the sidewalk, and then finally a polygon showing the paved
surface of the road?

How much detail do you really need to convey? I would agree with just
making a large polygon that defines the full residential area, and
layering the roads over top of it. Reusing the nodes defining a
roadway as an edge of the land use polygon makes sense to me. It does
make it harder to manipulate only one entity that is using the shared
nodes, but that's a trade off that you have to deal with.

-- 
James
VE6SRV


From emacsen at gmail.com  Mon Apr 16 02:15:12 2012
From: emacsen at gmail.com (Serge Wroclawski)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 21:15:12 -0400
Subject: [OSM-newbies] How to draw land-use areas
In-Reply-To: <CAMexNt5QxS9gt_nu70vj50Lofh=VPmO+MJDM1PXhPcQSyA4o2w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415104922.0fa93958@mail.adelphia.net>
	<201204152241.08142.r.h.michel+osm@gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415141200.0fa96de0@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAJ6DwMDm59K9zoo3Hu8pSTpF4=DbWHWcPW8yCM9ZkCSEqyK-YQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415171048.0fa97bf8@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAMexNt5QxS9gt_nu70vj50Lofh=VPmO+MJDM1PXhPcQSyA4o2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADbCdJiLF6gXUGP-crMxSit6hJZPkM6KHO7BhxzQLO9E=YiEeQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 8:57 PM, James Ewen <ve6srv at gmail.com> wrote:

> My personal feeling is that if you're going to map landuse to the
> physical edge of the road, then you should create the road as a
> polygon to show the edge of the road sharing the edge of the landuse.

Roads as polygons is really poorly supported in OSM, and by poorly
supported, I mean that for the most part, they're not at all, and
should be avoided.

While you might be able to render them, the renderer already has
support for rendering road size based on road type- using areas will
mess that up. In addition, AFAIK, none of the routing engines in OSM
support roads as areas, so using them would be a problem for both
renderers and routers.



> How much detail do you really need to convey? I would agree with just
> making a large polygon that defines the full residential area, and
> layering the roads over top of it. Reusing the nodes defining a
> roadway as an edge of the land use polygon makes sense to me. It does
> make it harder to manipulate only one entity that is using the shared
> nodes, but that's a trade off that you have to deal with.

One of the problems with landuse is that it's such an oddly defined
term in the first place. I don't know what landuse actually means.
Does it relate to zoning or usage? There are edge cases such as the
one you point out, and there are mixed use lots/buildings, and other
exceptions.

I generally avoid landuse altogether, as it's nearly impossible to
verify, and I've never found a situation in which I needed to know
what the landuse was for an area I was in, or traveling to.

This, I think, is the best advice for landuse - don't use it.

- Serge


From ve6srv at gmail.com  Mon Apr 16 02:26:29 2012
From: ve6srv at gmail.com (James Ewen)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 19:26:29 -0600
Subject: [OSM-newbies] How to draw land-use areas
In-Reply-To: <CADbCdJiLF6gXUGP-crMxSit6hJZPkM6KHO7BhxzQLO9E=YiEeQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415104922.0fa93958@mail.adelphia.net>
	<201204152241.08142.r.h.michel+osm@gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415141200.0fa96de0@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAJ6DwMDm59K9zoo3Hu8pSTpF4=DbWHWcPW8yCM9ZkCSEqyK-YQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415171048.0fa97bf8@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAMexNt5QxS9gt_nu70vj50Lofh=VPmO+MJDM1PXhPcQSyA4o2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbCdJiLF6gXUGP-crMxSit6hJZPkM6KHO7BhxzQLO9E=YiEeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMexNt4eZ4iYB5WD1qniU190_yRXj9egVwO6XnhUy9hiG9panw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 7:15 PM, Serge Wroclawski <emacsen at gmail.com> wrote:

> Roads as polygons is really poorly supported in OSM, and by poorly
> supported, I mean that for the most part, they're not at all, and
> should be avoided.

So by association, don't bother trying to draw the edge of the road
using a polygon that defines the adjacent area.

> I generally avoid landuse altogether, as it's nearly impossible to
> verify, and I've never found a situation in which I needed to know
> what the landuse was for an area I was in, or traveling to.
>
> This, I think, is the best advice for landuse - don't use it.

Really? Public parks, cemeteries, reservoirs, and the rest are of no
use on the map? Many types of landuse are very easy to identify on the
ground.

-- 
James
VE6SRV


From richard at weait.com  Mon Apr 16 02:56:30 2012
From: richard at weait.com (Richard Weait)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 21:56:30 -0400
Subject: [OSM-newbies] How to draw land-use areas
In-Reply-To: <CAMexNt4eZ4iYB5WD1qniU190_yRXj9egVwO6XnhUy9hiG9panw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415104922.0fa93958@mail.adelphia.net>
	<201204152241.08142.r.h.michel+osm@gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415141200.0fa96de0@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAJ6DwMDm59K9zoo3Hu8pSTpF4=DbWHWcPW8yCM9ZkCSEqyK-YQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415171048.0fa97bf8@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAMexNt5QxS9gt_nu70vj50Lofh=VPmO+MJDM1PXhPcQSyA4o2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbCdJiLF6gXUGP-crMxSit6hJZPkM6KHO7BhxzQLO9E=YiEeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMexNt4eZ4iYB5WD1qniU190_yRXj9egVwO6XnhUy9hiG9panw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGwUD5u7W41furgOoZvCQkqk2HX7pZW_YuXkdx-EzfUFBBCAXg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 9:26 PM, James Ewen <ve6srv at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 7:15 PM, Serge Wroclawski <emacsen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Roads as polygons is really poorly supported in OSM, and by poorly
>> supported, I mean that for the most part, they're not at all, and
>> should be avoided.
>
> So by association, don't bother trying to draw the edge of the road
> using a polygon that defines the adjacent area.
>
>> I generally avoid landuse altogether, as it's nearly impossible to
>> verify, and I've never found a situation in which I needed to know
>> what the landuse was for an area I was in, or traveling to.
>>
>> This, I think, is the best advice for landuse - don't use it.
>
> Really? Public parks, cemeteries, reservoirs, and the rest are of no
> use on the map? Many types of landuse are very easy to identify on the
> ground.

I find those amenities, parks, cemeteries, etc. relatively easy to
confirm and helpful to have on the map.  landuse = residential, vs.
commercial vs. light-commercial-industrial-3 or whatever the local
municipality designates it, much less so.

I prefer that the boundaries of those landuse areas, where they exist,
not be tied to the road or other features.


From Alan_Mintz+OSM at Earthlink.Net  Mon Apr 16 16:21:44 2012
From: Alan_Mintz+OSM at Earthlink.Net (Alan Mintz)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 08:21:44 -0700
Subject: [OSM-newbies] How to draw land-use areas
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415104922.0fa93958@mail.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20120416074328.04feb400@mail.earthlink.net>

At 2012-04-15 10:53, Charlotte Wolter wrote:
>         In the process of remapping work by "blars," I've come across a 
> way to draw land use that is new to me. He draws the land-use areas out 
> to the middle of the streets. For example, if he is specifying a city 
> block as "residential," he draws the outline down the middle of the 
> surrounding streets, and all the points in the outline intersect with the 
> points that create the street.
>         Is this the way land sue should be done?

IMO, no. It's particularly difficult when such a user joins the landuse 
ways to the road ways, presenting all sorts of opportunities for newbies to 
do "the wrong thing" when editing anything in the area. Even attentive 
editors have to go through all sorts of difficulties when dealing with 
splitting ways for turn restrictions, etc.

I map landuse out to what is likely to be the part of the land that the 
owner can actually build (or landscape) upon - generally the inner (i.e. 
away from the street) border of the sidewalk. Also, I rarely map individual 
parcels, choosing instead of map the outline of an entire tract. In this 
case, the landuse _will_ cover the roads that are interior to the tract or 
provide access to it. See 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.53391&lon=-117.34904&zoom=16 .


--
Alan Mintz <Alan_Mintz+OSM at Earthlink.net>



From Alan_Mintz+OSM at Earthlink.Net  Mon Apr 16 17:09:21 2012
From: Alan_Mintz+OSM at Earthlink.Net (Alan Mintz)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 09:09:21 -0700
Subject: [OSM-newbies] How to draw land-use areas
In-Reply-To: <CADbCdJiLF6gXUGP-crMxSit6hJZPkM6KHO7BhxzQLO9E=YiEeQ@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <CAMexNt5QxS9gt_nu70vj50Lofh=VPmO+MJDM1PXhPcQSyA4o2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415104922.0fa93958@mail.adelphia.net>
	<201204152241.08142.r.h.michel+osm@gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415141200.0fa96de0@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAJ6DwMDm59K9zoo3Hu8pSTpF4=DbWHWcPW8yCM9ZkCSEqyK-YQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415171048.0fa97bf8@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAMexNt5QxS9gt_nu70vj50Lofh=VPmO+MJDM1PXhPcQSyA4o2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20120416090416.02c0bac0@mail.earthlink.net>

At 2012-04-15 18:15, Serge Wroclawski wrote:
>This, I think, is the best advice for landuse - don't use it.

I _do_ think it's useful for marking specific features that are, for 
whatever reason, defined under the landuse key (e.g. cemetery, landfill, 
quarry).

I also find it useful to define the border of a named housing development, 
commercial business park, or shopping area, causing it to be shown in 
contrast on the map as well as named. I also add it to a site-type relation 
with a role of "boundary".

--
Alan Mintz <Alan_Mintz+OSM at Earthlink.net>



From jcg.sturdy at gmail.com  Mon Apr 16 17:19:02 2012
From: jcg.sturdy at gmail.com (John Sturdy)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 17:19:02 +0100
Subject: [OSM-newbies] How to draw land-use areas
In-Reply-To: <CAGwUD5u7W41furgOoZvCQkqk2HX7pZW_YuXkdx-EzfUFBBCAXg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415104922.0fa93958@mail.adelphia.net>
	<201204152241.08142.r.h.michel+osm@gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415141200.0fa96de0@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAJ6DwMDm59K9zoo3Hu8pSTpF4=DbWHWcPW8yCM9ZkCSEqyK-YQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415171048.0fa97bf8@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAMexNt5QxS9gt_nu70vj50Lofh=VPmO+MJDM1PXhPcQSyA4o2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbCdJiLF6gXUGP-crMxSit6hJZPkM6KHO7BhxzQLO9E=YiEeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMexNt4eZ4iYB5WD1qniU190_yRXj9egVwO6XnhUy9hiG9panw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGwUD5u7W41furgOoZvCQkqk2HX7pZW_YuXkdx-EzfUFBBCAXg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFJf9KMcFOnRb5GHTV5fwfnTUKZH7bocJKGxjaWLYqTbdkqszg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 2:56 AM, Richard Weait <richard at weait.com> wrote:

> I find those amenities, parks, cemeteries, etc. relatively easy to
> confirm and helpful to have on the map. ?landuse = residential, vs.
> commercial vs. light-commercial-industrial-3 or whatever the local
> municipality designates it, much less so.
>
> I prefer that the boundaries of those landuse areas, where they exist,
> not be tied to the road or other features.

+1 to both parts of this!

__John


From emacsen at gmail.com  Mon Apr 16 18:04:10 2012
From: emacsen at gmail.com (Serge Wroclawski)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 13:04:10 -0400
Subject: [OSM-newbies] How to draw land-use areas
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20120416090416.02c0bac0@mail.earthlink.net>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415104922.0fa93958@mail.adelphia.net>
	<201204152241.08142.r.h.michel+osm@gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415141200.0fa96de0@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAJ6DwMDm59K9zoo3Hu8pSTpF4=DbWHWcPW8yCM9ZkCSEqyK-YQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415171048.0fa97bf8@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAMexNt5QxS9gt_nu70vj50Lofh=VPmO+MJDM1PXhPcQSyA4o2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20120416090416.02c0bac0@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CADbCdJhffjiQXYgv5EAtSouboCAw2rdQx1sHrLrjwvStFfm=Sw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Alan Mintz
<Alan_Mintz+OSM at earthlink.net> wrote:
> At 2012-04-15 18:15, Serge Wroclawski wrote:
>>
>> This, I think, is the best advice for landuse - don't use it.
>
>
> I _do_ think it's useful for marking specific features that are, for
> whatever reason, defined under the landuse key (e.g. cemetery, landfill,
> quarry).

It's my understanding that the original question was about
landuse=residential vs landuse=commercial. That's not the same as
landuse=cemetary or landuse=landfill, obviously.

> I also find it useful to define the border of a named housing development,
> commercial business park, or shopping area, causing it to be shown in
> contrast on the map as well as named. I also add it to a site-type relation
> with a role of "boundary".

Those have defined borders, where as the general "landuse=residential"
is not often well defined at all.

- Serge (not interested in supplying any more nits) Wroclawski


From techlady at techlady.com  Mon Apr 16 18:57:48 2012
From: techlady at techlady.com (Charlotte Wolter)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 10:57:48 -0700
Subject: [OSM-newbies] How to draw land-use areas
In-Reply-To: <CAMexNt5QxS9gt_nu70vj50Lofh=VPmO+MJDM1PXhPcQSyA4o2w@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415104922.0fa93958@mail.adelphia.net>
	<201204152241.08142.r.h.michel+osm@gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415141200.0fa96de0@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAJ6DwMDm59K9zoo3Hu8pSTpF4=DbWHWcPW8yCM9ZkCSEqyK-YQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415171048.0fa97bf8@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAMexNt5QxS9gt_nu70vj50Lofh=VPmO+MJDM1PXhPcQSyA4o2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20120416105300.0f97fcf8@mail.adelphia.net>


         I agree that, for a large area with the same land use, you 
draw the land use as one large polygon and put the roads on top of it.
         However, where you have a strip of retail at one end of a 
city block, I think that land use begins at the edge of the buildings 
and should not include even the sidewalk. These areas of land use are 
by their nature patches of use, not large areas. There might even be 
a church in the middle of the block. I can't see extending these 
land-use areas to the middle of the street. It makes any changes to 
the area more complicated.

--C


At 05:57 PM 4/15/2012, you wrote:
>On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Charlotte Wolter 
><techlady at techlady.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes, I agree, but this guy is drawing the margins, not just in 
> the middle of
> > the road, but linked to the road, using the same points as the road. Also,
> > he did this even when the land use is different on both sides of the road.
> > It makes changing the road and/or changing land use a real bitch.
>
>I would think the opposite... If the road is in the wrong location,
>and you move the nodes that define the road, the land use on either
>side is updated automatically. If the land use polygons were
>completely separate, and you changed the geometry of the road, you
>would then have to change the geometry of the land use polygons to
>match the road geometry.
>
>It's all in how you look at the map, and the mapping concepts. OSM has
>no overarching body that says "You will map things this way!", so
>everyone does things the way they feel is best. This can lead to
>people mapping things, others ripping it up, and then an editing war
>ensues.
>
>My personal feeling is that if you're going to map landuse to the
>physical edge of the road, then you should create the road as a
>polygon to show the edge of the road sharing the edge of the landuse.
>Hmm, let's see around here we would need to put the edge of the
>landuse polygon on the edge of the privately owned land, and then
>create a polygon for the government owned road allowance, and within
>that road allowance, draw another polygon defining the physical space
>occupied by the road surface.
>
>The front of my city lot, which looks to be my front lawn actually has
>6 feet of grass that belongs to the county, which is used for
>utilities. Should I draw a residential land use polygon to the edge of
>my property, then a county allowance polygon followed by a polygon
>defining the sidewalk, and then finally a polygon showing the paved
>surface of the road?
>
>How much detail do you really need to convey? I would agree with just
>making a large polygon that defines the full residential area, and
>layering the roads over top of it. Reusing the nodes defining a
>roadway as an edge of the land use polygon makes sense to me. It does
>make it harder to manipulate only one entity that is using the shared
>nodes, but that's a trade off that you have to deal with.
>
>--
>James
>VE6SRV
>
>_______________________________________________
>newbies mailing list
>newbies at openstreetmap.org
>http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies

Charlotte Wolter
927 18th Street Suite A
Santa Monica, California
90403
+1-310-597-4040
techlady at techlady.com
Skype: thetechlady

The Four Internet Freedoms
Freedom to visit any site on the Internet
Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal
Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network
Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that 
would affect the first three freedoms.
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From dxpublica at telefonica.net  Mon Apr 16 19:06:08 2012
From: dxpublica at telefonica.net (Xan)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 20:06:08 +0200
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Public dinner room?
In-Reply-To: <CA+UuV1Aea1tKj9hbWHOnQN-P+YQFyL2fwy6p21brejy48SCyuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F872B24.1010007@telefonica.net>
	<CAFJf9KMi_jwg6-uP_c4LZrT2x8Wxrrvh1eZ2ES+g-3JraZ2O5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F89E611.5050401@telefonica.net>
	<CA+UuV1A2V9hi5BFisX-eQe2piiv6d3FwYQNfsDCK=vfZG0gx4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F8A9107.1010302@telefonica.net>
	<CAMexNt7aOGq_JTyr1Cy1-zhqqZQGzbOj0QTe=PnkjZUwa0bMZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+UuV1Aea1tKj9hbWHOnQN-P+YQFyL2fwy6p21brejy48SCyuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F8C5F90.4030606@telefonica.net>

OK. Thanks all of you. I hope John finish the tag in wiki for general 
use ;-)

Xan.

Al 15/04/12 21:50, En/na Aspen Swartz ha escrit:
> I agree with James.  In my part of the world, we simply don't have
> exactly the same type of thing as this "public dinner room".  So why
> not tag it in the language of the area it's in, with the words that
> locals use to describe it?
>
> Aspen
>
> On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 10:24 AM, James Ewen<ve6srv at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 3:12 AM, Xan<dxpublica at telefonica.net>  wrote:
>>> Al 15/04/12 07:47, En/na Aspen Swartz ha escrit:
>>>
>>>> In my part of the world we call that a "picnic shelter".
>>> Even if the "picnic shelter" is in a room of a building (that's my case)?
>> I doubt that you will find a global solution. There are many distinct
>> items that are unique to specific areas of the world. In those areas,
>> tags to describe those items need to be created.
>>
>> Here in Canada we have roads that are built each winter over the
>> frozen muskeg and lakes. These ice roads only exist for a few months
>> each year while the temperatures are low enough to support heavy
>> traffic. These roads are rebuilt each year in the approximate same
>> place, and are extremely important routes used to haul heavy
>> commodities to the northern communities served by them. Without these
>> roads many communities would not be able to get a lot of their
>> supplies.
>>
>> Warmer temperate and equatorial countries would never use these tags,
>> but they exist to describe types of roads we have here. Pick a tag,
>> and stick with it. If you use it enough and others pick up on it,
>> someone might start making maps that show these public dining rooms.
>> These are not picnic_shelters, nor would I consider a picnic_shelter a
>> public_dining_room... there's enough distinction to require unique
>> tags.
>>
>> But then again, this is just my humble opinion.
>>
>> --
>> James
>> VE6SRV
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> newbies mailing list
>> newbies at openstreetmap.org
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
> newbies at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies



From dudleyibbett at hotmail.com  Mon Apr 16 19:11:20 2012
From: dudleyibbett at hotmail.com (Dudley Ibbett)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 18:11:20 +0000
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Drawing Landuse Area
Message-ID: <DUB112-W68FE42655E7FF9C68AFADFC63E0@phx.gbl>


Hi

This posting is partially related to a recent post I made asking about linking field boundaries (barriers) to roads.  I should add my interest is mapping paths in the UK countryside so my comments relate to a rural environment.  The response I received seem to suggest not to linking the barrier to the road but draw a boundary parallel to the road was the preferred method of mapping.  The suggestion to use the make parallel way helps with this.  I am in effect drawing boundaries (barriers) that could be tagged as a landuse area but am choosing instead just to tag the "area" boundary as a barrier.  I appreciate if can look "messy" as you up the resolution near the road, which is why I asked the original question but it would seem that linking to the road just causes problems for future edits.   

Landuse, residential, graveyard, farmyard, commercial are all useful tags.  Only recently I was able to identify a path as going though the graveyard of a church rather than the adjacent residential area.

Regards

Dudley





  
 		 	   		  
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From jcg.sturdy at gmail.com  Mon Apr 16 19:23:05 2012
From: jcg.sturdy at gmail.com (John Sturdy)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 19:23:05 +0100
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Drawing Landuse Area
In-Reply-To: <DUB112-W68FE42655E7FF9C68AFADFC63E0@phx.gbl>
References: <DUB112-W68FE42655E7FF9C68AFADFC63E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAFJf9KOQMJ9HoVy6U777c-z2Qdo8U34A2XwXrijaSVKOtFMTLw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 7:11 PM, Dudley Ibbett <dudleyibbett at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Only recently I was able to identify a path as going though the graveyard of
> a church rather than the adjacent residential area.

I think this is another common occurrence --- a (foot) path going
along the edge of a field, churchyard, etc, but just *inside* the area
from the barrier, whereas a road generally goes just outside the
barrier.  And distinguishing these is good.

__John


From sam.kuper at uclmail.net  Mon Apr 16 19:46:30 2012
From: sam.kuper at uclmail.net (Sam Kuper)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 19:46:30 +0100
Subject: [OSM-newbies] How to draw land-use areas
In-Reply-To: <CADbCdJiLF6gXUGP-crMxSit6hJZPkM6KHO7BhxzQLO9E=YiEeQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415104922.0fa93958@mail.adelphia.net>
	<201204152241.08142.r.h.michel+osm@gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415141200.0fa96de0@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAJ6DwMDm59K9zoo3Hu8pSTpF4=DbWHWcPW8yCM9ZkCSEqyK-YQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415171048.0fa97bf8@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAMexNt5QxS9gt_nu70vj50Lofh=VPmO+MJDM1PXhPcQSyA4o2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbCdJiLF6gXUGP-crMxSit6hJZPkM6KHO7BhxzQLO9E=YiEeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD-Jur+ZAPyH7BSzNDNFn=SD8dg1n+Rb37txC-Mq7Lb4mzb=Nw@mail.gmail.com>

On 16 April 2012 02:15, Serge Wroclawski <emacsen at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 8:57 PM, James Ewen <ve6srv at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > My personal feeling is that if you're going to map landuse to the
> > physical edge of the road, then you should create the road as a
> > polygon to show the edge of the road sharing the edge of the landuse.
>
> Roads as polygons is really poorly supported in OSM, and by poorly
> supported, I mean that for the most part, they're not at all, and
> should be avoided.
>
> While you might be able to render them, the renderer already has
> support for rendering road size based on road type- using areas will
> mess that up. In addition, AFAIK, none of the routing engines in OSM
> support roads as areas, so using them would be a problem for both
> renderers and routers.
>

In my view, OSM's lack of support for roads (which *are* polygons, not
lines) as polygons is a bug in dire need of fixing. Map roads as polygons,
I say! And any of us finds that the tools don't facilitate that, then (s)he
should stop tagging for the moment and turn her/his attention to improving
the tools.

If we get this right, then eventually we'll be able to use OSM to look up
the dimensions of roads, pavements, traffic islands, central reservations,
etc, which has the potential to be very useful in support of open planning.

Sam
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From techlady at techlady.com  Mon Apr 16 23:12:37 2012
From: techlady at techlady.com (Charlotte Wolter)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 15:12:37 -0700
Subject: [OSM-newbies] How to draw land-use areas
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20120416074328.04feb400@mail.earthlink.net>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415104922.0fa93958@mail.adelphia.net>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20120416074328.04feb400@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20120416151216.0f15a878@mail.adelphia.net>


I agree. Is there a way to get that into the wiki?

At 08:21 AM 4/16/2012, you wrote:
>At 2012-04-15 10:53, Charlotte Wolter wrote:
>>         In the process of remapping work by "blars," I've come 
>> across a way to draw land use that is new to me. He draws the 
>> land-use areas out to the middle of the streets. For example, if 
>> he is specifying a city block as "residential," he draws the 
>> outline down the middle of the surrounding streets, and all the 
>> points in the outline intersect with the points that create the street.
>>         Is this the way land sue should be done?
>
>IMO, no. It's particularly difficult when such a user joins the 
>landuse ways to the road ways, presenting all sorts of opportunities 
>for newbies to do "the wrong thing" when editing anything in the 
>area. Even attentive editors have to go through all sorts of 
>difficulties when dealing with splitting ways for turn restrictions, etc.
>
>I map landuse out to what is likely to be the part of the land that 
>the owner can actually build (or landscape) upon - generally the 
>inner (i.e. away from the street) border of the sidewalk. Also, I 
>rarely map individual parcels, choosing instead of map the outline 
>of an entire tract. In this case, the landuse _will_ cover the roads 
>that are interior to the tract or provide access to it. See 
>http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.53391&lon=-117.34904&zoom=16 .
>
>
>--
>Alan Mintz <Alan_Mintz+OSM at Earthlink.net>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>newbies mailing list
>newbies at openstreetmap.org
>http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies

Charlotte Wolter
927 18th Street Suite A
Santa Monica, California
90403
+1-310-597-4040
techlady at techlady.com
Skype: thetechlady

The Four Internet Freedoms
Freedom to visit any site on the Internet
Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal
Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network
Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that 
would affect the first three freedoms.
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From winfixit at gmail.com  Mon Apr 16 23:19:07 2012
From: winfixit at gmail.com (Jo)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2012 00:19:07 +0200
Subject: [OSM-newbies] How to draw land-use areas
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20120416151216.0f15a878@mail.adelphia.net>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415104922.0fa93958@mail.adelphia.net>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20120416074328.04feb400@mail.earthlink.net>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120416151216.0f15a878@mail.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <CAJ6DwMDtRJwM22FHvO07JCuK-raA-852akP1ENEnGV=McQiDMQ@mail.gmail.com>

Anybody can edit the wiki...

2012/4/17 Charlotte Wolter <techlady at techlady.com>

>
> I agree. Is there a way to get that into the wiki?
>
>
> At 08:21 AM 4/16/2012, you wrote:
>
> At 2012-04-15 10:53, Charlotte Wolter wrote:
>
>         In the process of remapping work by "blars," I've come across a
> way to draw land use that is new to me. He draws the land-use areas out to
> the middle of the streets. For example, if he is specifying a city block as
> "residential," he draws the outline down the middle of the surrounding
> streets, and all the points in the outline intersect with the points that
> create the street.
>         Is this the way land sue should be done?
>
>
> IMO, no. It's particularly difficult when such a user joins the landuse
> ways to the road ways, presenting all sorts of opportunities for newbies to
> do "the wrong thing" when editing anything in the area. Even attentive
> editors have to go through all sorts of difficulties when dealing with
> splitting ways for turn restrictions, etc.
>
> I map landuse out to what is likely to be the part of the land that the
> owner can actually build (or landscape) upon - generally the inner (i.e.
> away from the street) border of the sidewalk. Also, I rarely map individual
> parcels, choosing instead of map the outline of an entire tract. In this
> case, the landuse _will_ cover the roads that are interior to the tract or
> provide access to it. See
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.53391&lon=-117.34904&zoom=16 .
>
>
> --
> Alan Mintz <Alan_Mintz+OSM at Earthlink.net>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
> newbies at openstreetmap.org
>  http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies
>
> **
>
> ** Charlotte Wolter
>
> 927 18th Street Suite A
> Santa Monica, California
> 90403
> +1-310-597-4040
> techlady at techlady.com
> Skype: thetechlady
>
> *The Four Internet Freedoms*
> Freedom to visit any site on the Internet
> Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal
> Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network
> Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would
> affect the first three freedoms.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
> newbies at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies
>
>
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From emacsen at gmail.com  Tue Apr 17 00:14:42 2012
From: emacsen at gmail.com (Serge Wroclawski)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 19:14:42 -0400
Subject: [OSM-newbies] How to draw land-use areas
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20120416151216.0f15a878@mail.adelphia.net>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415104922.0fa93958@mail.adelphia.net>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20120416074328.04feb400@mail.earthlink.net>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120416151216.0f15a878@mail.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <CADbCdJgrb9KF-QzEpxDg64gAqF4Sgb2toaOZYjGXDLh5W4yj3Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Charlotte Wolter <techlady at techlady.com> wrote:
>
> I agree. Is there a way to get that into the wiki?

You can argue that "the software should XYZ" but the fact is that
roads are ways in OSM, and of all the "standards"- this is one that is
most well established.

It is not just part of the renderer, but provides key hints to the routers.

This is well documented on the OSM wiki, the OSM books (both Free and
non-Free) and in the OSM video tutorial series.

Unless you can provide patches to Mapnik, Halycon, and at least one
OSM routing engine, then what you'll be doing is putting garbage in
OSM, which will be quickly removed by the many dedicated volunteers.

- Serge


From jamicuosm at googlemail.com  Tue Apr 17 00:16:54 2012
From: jamicuosm at googlemail.com (Jason Cunningham)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2012 00:16:54 +0100
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Boundaries and Roads
In-Reply-To: <CAFJf9KPrvG=ceU1aY7NgU4ZgDE-xnABwsJFfBiSV4b4CQUcGqw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DUB112-W12202309E750B82C5746631C6310@phx.gbl>
	<CAFJf9KPrvG=ceU1aY7NgU4ZgDE-xnABwsJFfBiSV4b4CQUcGqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK7S3dOFXcxrX=rJaH2ygNvETyNd4RgVri3Y0jwbRVuVqsY+gw@mail.gmail.com>

On 8 April 2012 16:12, John Sturdy <jcg.sturdy at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 7:24 PM, Dudley Ibbett <dudleyibbett at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Should I try and draw the field boundary along the road in all
> situations or
> > only do this when there is a large gap > 3m?
> >
> > If I don't draw the field boundary along the road should I link to the
> road
> > or should I stop the boundary just short of the road?
> >
> > Some guidance would be appreciated as I don't want to link boundaries to
> > roads if this could cause problems.
>
> I think practices vary on this; I prefer to make them separate, partly
> because the "road" is just the midline of the road, which is not where
> the field ends, and partly for practicality of later editing: that
> it's hard(er) to select a way that uses the same points as another
> one.
>
> What I've found is quite easy, and I think looks reasonably neat, is
> to use the "make a parallel way" tool (in Potlatch, I haven't learnt
> JOSM yet but I expect it has this too) to take a copy of the road, and
> move it slightly aside to where the field boundary is, and cut it to
> be just the piece you need for that field; then turn it into whatever
> kind of barrier there is around the field (hedge, fence, etc) and also
> use it as the edge of the field.  (That doesn't follow my suggestion
> of making each way separate for easier selection, but I think it's
> less likely to want to do things separately to the field and its
> barrier, than to want to do things separately to the field and the
> neighbouring road.)
>
> __John
>

Areas attached to roads are one of my pet hates in OSM, in large part due
to the difficulties in editing things later on.
I agree with John's statement that highways mark the centreline of the
road, and as far as I'm concerned giving the edge of the field as the
centre of the road is misleading.

Jason
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From sam.kuper at uclmail.net  Tue Apr 17 01:09:14 2012
From: sam.kuper at uclmail.net (Sam Kuper)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2012 01:09:14 +0100
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Boundaries and Roads
In-Reply-To: <op.wcgpgaogl2i25i@bernd-aspire-5741g>
References: <mailman.39.1333882830.19418.newbies@openstreetmap.org>
	<op.wcgpgaogl2i25i@bernd-aspire-5741g>
Message-ID: <CAD-JurJ+XG4SiP812dqkxuLH6SMYOCdnG2US9fOvH_svQLxYOA@mail.gmail.com>

On 8 April 2012 20:51, Bernd Vogelgesang <bernd.vogelgesang at gmx.de> wrote:

> **
> from a GIS-persons point of view, you alway should avoid gaps in your map
> ( = in your data).
> Cartographic work is always generalizing the world, and only because you
> COULD go into detail in the sub-meter sphere technically with the digital
> means nowadays, you should should ask yourself: what is it good for?
>
> So, what would be the information you provide, leaving a blank space
> between a field and a road?
> Actually none, cause you do not specify what this gap is, although its
> quite clear that it's something between the road and the field.
> But when its already obvious that there are strips of surface which do not
> belong neither to roads nor fields, you could right away leave them out and
> align the border of the field directly to the road.
>
> In digitizing you normally decide about the map scale of the end product.
> With OSM-maps, thats a little bit difficult, cause there is no common sense
> about the usage, and therefor also about the production-scale.
>
> The planned scale is important, cause it decides about the precision you
> need to get a satisfying result.
> E.g. when you want to have a map in 1:5000, you normally digitize your
> features at a scale of 1:2500 or 1:2000.
> The human eye can not distinguish features smaller than half a millimeter
> on a screen or on paper.
>
> With a map in 1:5000, 1/2mm on screen is 2,5 meters in reality. Thats the
> planned "error" you are "allowed" to produce, cause on the planned scale,
> you can't even see it.
>
> So the question should always be: what is the planned usage and what is
> the benefit from increasing the accuracy?
>
> A field border outside a village is much less interesting than borders and
> features in a town center.
> When the mapped part is mostly relevant for navigating, so as a real
> street map, you could easily set your planned scale to 1:25000 or even
> higher (with the resulting need for generalization), as normal users will
> watch it in that scale anyway to get the overview they need.
> If it's a feature of high interest, you could set your planned scale to
> 1:1000 or lower, with a resulting need of higher accuracy.
>
> [...]
> (please be aware: this opinion might be in conflict with some holy
> OSM-rules set up by some OSM-priests i do not know and do not care about.
> This is just cartographic common sense)
>

Amen; and I don't see any reason why we shouldn't be aiming for OSM to be
as accurate as possible.

I'd be thrilled if the fine scale maps used by local authorities to settle
boundary disputes and planning applications and so on were scanned and used
to refine OSM, and see no technical reason why this shouldn't, in time,
occur - except for the archaic insistence that in OSM, roads must be
unrealistically represented as lines.
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From Alan_Mintz+OSM at Earthlink.Net  Tue Apr 17 02:50:22 2012
From: Alan_Mintz+OSM at Earthlink.Net (Alan Mintz)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 18:50:22 -0700
Subject: [OSM-newbies] How to draw land-use areas
In-Reply-To: <CAD-Jur+ZAPyH7BSzNDNFn=SD8dg1n+Rb37txC-Mq7Lb4mzb=Nw@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <CADbCdJiLF6gXUGP-crMxSit6hJZPkM6KHO7BhxzQLO9E=YiEeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415104922.0fa93958@mail.adelphia.net>
	<201204152241.08142.r.h.michel+osm@gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415141200.0fa96de0@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAJ6DwMDm59K9zoo3Hu8pSTpF4=DbWHWcPW8yCM9ZkCSEqyK-YQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415171048.0fa97bf8@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAMexNt5QxS9gt_nu70vj50Lofh=VPmO+MJDM1PXhPcQSyA4o2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbCdJiLF6gXUGP-crMxSit6hJZPkM6KHO7BhxzQLO9E=YiEeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20120416183319.02c4ad60@mail.earthlink.net>

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From sam.kuper at uclmail.net  Tue Apr 17 03:50:25 2012
From: sam.kuper at uclmail.net (Sam Kuper)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2012 03:50:25 +0100
Subject: [OSM-newbies] How to draw land-use areas
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20120416183319.02c4ad60@mail.earthlink.net>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415104922.0fa93958@mail.adelphia.net>
	<201204152241.08142.r.h.michel+osm@gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415141200.0fa96de0@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAJ6DwMDm59K9zoo3Hu8pSTpF4=DbWHWcPW8yCM9ZkCSEqyK-YQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415171048.0fa97bf8@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAMexNt5QxS9gt_nu70vj50Lofh=VPmO+MJDM1PXhPcQSyA4o2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbCdJiLF6gXUGP-crMxSit6hJZPkM6KHO7BhxzQLO9E=YiEeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20120416183319.02c4ad60@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAD-JurJwSbMz6iN_P92ufYKbdanv0cxPZMkqwD0by+k_keAZkA@mail.gmail.com>

On 17 April 2012 02:50, Alan Mintz <Alan_Mintz+OSM at earthlink.net> wrote:

> At 2012-04-16 11:46, Sam Kuper wrote:
>
> On 16 April 2012 02:15, Serge Wroclawski <emacsen at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 8:57 PM, James Ewen <ve6srv at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > My personal feeling is that if you're going to map landuse to the >
> physical edge of the road, then you should create the road as a > polygon
> to show the edge of the road sharing the edge of the landuse.
>
> Roads as polygons is really poorly supported in OSM, and by poorly supported,
> I mean that for the most part, they're not at all, and should be avoided.
>
> While you might be able to render them, the renderer already has support
> for rendering road size based on road type- using areas will mess that
> up. In addition, AFAIK, none of the routing engines in OSM support roads
> as areas, so using them would be a problem for both renderers and routers.
> In my view, OSM's lack of support for roads (which are? polygons, not
> lines) as polygons is a bug in dire need of fixing.
>
> Technically, everything is a polygon, since a line cannot exist in the
> physical world.


Boundaries are lines.


> So, proper tools (including OSM) either add a width property to them or
> assume a width based on other criteria (like road class). This works fine
> for most purposes, and avoids the performance penalties of unnecessary
> detail.


I don't think it works fine at all. Lots of sections of road aren't
symmetrical, for a start. Centreline plus width strikes me as misleading in
these cases.


Map roads as polygons, I say! And any of us finds that the tools don't
> facilitate that, then (s)he should stop tagging for the moment and turn
> her/his attention to improving the tools.
>
> If we get this right, then eventually we'll be able to use OSM to look up
> the dimensions of roads, pavements, traffic islands, central reservations,
> etc, which has the potential to be very useful in support of open planning.
>
>
> I disagree. Even professionals see no need for this.


Professionals at which aspects of which professions?


> County road databases (all that I've seen) are all based on centerlines,
> with traffic classes, widths, etc. well-used for necessary traffic
> planning. The details of particular curb, lane, and island placements are
> all available in the various map books, which are often available online by
> links.


I'd be genuinely interested to see examples showing how to correlate the
data from such country road databases and map books. Please could you
provide some?


> This isn't because of lack of capability - all current tools have support
> for polygons - it's simply a matter of using the right feature for the job.
> There's no reason to overload one map layer with all that detail that is of
> no importance to the vast majority of consumers.
>

Are you proposing that OSM should use one layer for roads as lines, and
another layer for roads as polygons?


> In the OSM world, I believe it's not presumptive to say that the vast
> majority of mappers are unwilling to go out there with a survey crew and
> measure the type of details your talking about, nor to (probably manually)
> import them from engineering drawings, nor to want to support the
> performance penalty caused by having to render all that detail,


Not yet. Give it time.


> for no real benefit to them or anyone they can think of.
>

Yet :-)

Sam
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From Alan_Mintz+OSM at Earthlink.Net  Tue Apr 17 08:00:25 2012
From: Alan_Mintz+OSM at Earthlink.Net (Alan Mintz)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2012 00:00:25 -0700
Subject: [OSM-newbies] How to draw land-use areas
In-Reply-To: <CAD-JurJwSbMz6iN_P92ufYKbdanv0cxPZMkqwD0by+k_keAZkA@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20120416183319.02c4ad60@mail.earthlink.net>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415104922.0fa93958@mail.adelphia.net>
	<201204152241.08142.r.h.michel+osm@gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415141200.0fa96de0@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAJ6DwMDm59K9zoo3Hu8pSTpF4=DbWHWcPW8yCM9ZkCSEqyK-YQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415171048.0fa97bf8@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAMexNt5QxS9gt_nu70vj50Lofh=VPmO+MJDM1PXhPcQSyA4o2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbCdJiLF6gXUGP-crMxSit6hJZPkM6KHO7BhxzQLO9E=YiEeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20120416183319.02c4ad60@mail.earthlink.net>
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From pieren3 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 17 08:47:52 2012
From: pieren3 at gmail.com (Pieren)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2012 09:47:52 +0200
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Boundaries and Roads
In-Reply-To: <CAK7S3dOFXcxrX=rJaH2ygNvETyNd4RgVri3Y0jwbRVuVqsY+gw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DUB112-W12202309E750B82C5746631C6310@phx.gbl>
	<CAFJf9KPrvG=ceU1aY7NgU4ZgDE-xnABwsJFfBiSV4b4CQUcGqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK7S3dOFXcxrX=rJaH2ygNvETyNd4RgVri3Y0jwbRVuVqsY+gw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPT3zJquHwrW-fUi-Wc0ZW6BOjvG46Ux8vX5f1maFjnVBVCzGA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 1:16 AM, Jason Cunningham
<jamicuosm at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Areas attached to roads are one of my pet hates in OSM, in large part due to
> the difficulties in editing things later on.

Editing things later when not attached is also difficult, e.g. if you
have to adjust misaligned imagery sources.

> I agree with John's statement that highways mark the centreline of the road,
> and as far as I'm concerned giving the edge of the field as the centre of
> the road is misleading.

Not less misleading than traffic_signals or pedestrian crossing on
junction nodes or lanes/width/surface values changing on short
distance and therefore ignored, etc. We do approximate and simplify
with vector mapping. And we have to accept the different levels of
simplication depending on the contributors.

Pieren


From david.fawcett at gmail.com  Tue Apr 17 14:20:27 2012
From: david.fawcett at gmail.com (David Fawcett)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2012 08:20:27 -0500
Subject: [OSM-newbies] How to draw land-use areas
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20120416183319.02c4ad60@mail.earthlink.net>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415104922.0fa93958@mail.adelphia.net>
	<201204152241.08142.r.h.michel+osm@gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415141200.0fa96de0@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAJ6DwMDm59K9zoo3Hu8pSTpF4=DbWHWcPW8yCM9ZkCSEqyK-YQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415171048.0fa97bf8@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAMexNt5QxS9gt_nu70vj50Lofh=VPmO+MJDM1PXhPcQSyA4o2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbCdJiLF6gXUGP-crMxSit6hJZPkM6KHO7BhxzQLO9E=YiEeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20120416183319.02c4ad60@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAF7K3b_iGwYCPRK0ajYzu_M2qyTdv77YwJnPsrkWr08vjFskPw@mail.gmail.com>

+1  well said.

On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 8:50 PM, Alan Mintz <Alan_Mintz+OSM at earthlink.net>wrote:

> At 2012-04-16 11:46, Sam Kuper wrote:
>
> On 16 April 2012 02:15, Serge Wroclawski <emacsen at gmail.com> wrote: On
> Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 8:57 PM, James Ewen <ve6srv at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > My personal feeling is that if you're going to map landuse to the >
> physical edge of the road, then you should create the road as a > polygon
> to show the edge of the road sharing the edge of the landuse.
>
> Roads as polygons is really poorly supported in OSM, and by poorly supported,
> I mean that for the most part, they're not at all, and should be avoided.
>
> While you might be able to render them, the renderer already has support
> for rendering road size based on road type- using areas will mess that
> up. In addition, AFAIK, none of the routing engines in OSM support roads
> as areas, so using them would be a problem for both renderers and routers.
>
>
> In my view, OSM's lack of support for roads (which are? polygons, not
> lines) as polygons is a bug in dire need of fixing.
>
>
> Technically, everything is a polygon, since a line cannot exist in the
> physical world. So, proper tools (including OSM) either add a width
> property to them or assume a width based on other criteria (like road
> class). This works fine for most purposes, and avoids the performance
> penalties of unnecessary detail.
>
>
> Map roads as polygons, I say! And any of us finds that the tools don't
> facilitate that, then (s)he should stop tagging for the moment and turn
> her/his attention to improving the tools.
>
> If we get this right, then eventually we'll be able to use OSM to look up
> the dimensions of roads, pavements, traffic islands, central reservations,
> etc, which has the potential to be very useful in support of open planning.
>
>
> I disagree. Even professionals see no need for this. County road databases
> (all that I've seen) are all based on centerlines, with traffic classes,
> widths, etc. well-used for necessary traffic planning. The details of
> particular curb, lane, and island placements are all available in the
> various map books, which are often available online by links. This isn't
> because of lack of capability - all current tools have support for polygons
> - it's simply a matter of using the right feature for the job. There's no
> reason to overload one map layer with all that detail that is of no
> importance to the vast majority of consumers.
>
> In the OSM world, I believe it's not presumptive to say that the vast
> majority of mappers are unwilling to go out there with a survey crew and
> measure the type of details your talking about, nor to (probably manually)
> import them from engineering drawings, nor to want to support the
> performance penalty caused by having to render all that detail, for no real
> benefit to them or anyone they can think of.
> **
>
> ** --
> Alan Mintz <Alan_Mintz+OSM at Earthlink.net>
>
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
> newbies at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies
>
>
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From stevagewp at gmail.com  Tue Apr 17 15:11:41 2012
From: stevagewp at gmail.com (Steve Bennett)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 00:11:41 +1000
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Boundaries and Roads
In-Reply-To: <DUB112-W12202309E750B82C5746631C6310@phx.gbl>
References: <DUB112-W12202309E750B82C5746631C6310@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CA+z=q=uwwN-22w=1QQHTCDkhsa=fobXFwmsvW1W95KhWCMex1A@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 4:24 AM, Dudley Ibbett <dudleyibbett at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I could do with some advice on joining field boundaries to roads.? I have
> been doing this as the mapping style I am use to never has the field
> boundary running along the side the road.? If the field boundary along the

Methods for this vary. My suggestion: try several methods, and see
what works best for you. Discuss with other people in your area, and
do what they do.

There are pros and cons either way.

Steve


From Alan_Mintz+OSM at Earthlink.Net  Tue Apr 17 19:34:07 2012
From: Alan_Mintz+OSM at Earthlink.Net (Alan Mintz)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2012 11:34:07 -0700
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Avoiding many changesets
In-Reply-To: <A5B1053698044286AB27D66CE25E0C46@Fred>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20120417112758.02bddd10@mail.earthlink.net>

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From stevagewp at gmail.com  Wed Apr 18 04:44:00 2012
From: stevagewp at gmail.com (Steve Bennett)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 13:44:00 +1000
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Avoiding many changesets
In-Reply-To: <A5B1053698044286AB27D66CE25E0C46@Fred>
References: <A5B1053698044286AB27D66CE25E0C46@Fred>
Message-ID: <CA+z=q=vduQFJ93Z_7gvgOUm85aJvfvx+mUmv6tm9PyRqeWY_9Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 5:09 AM, David Litke <dwlitke at comcast.net> wrote:
> A have a dozen or so changesets so far, and I realized I forgot to add the
> source=survey tag to my edits. If I make this single change, I end up with
> yet another changeset. It seems soon I will have too many changesets to keep
> track of.

What do you mean by "keep track of"? What do you want to do with them?

Me, I probably have thousands of changesets - I don't really pay
attention to them. The data is what matters to me, now the
changeset...

Steve


From poppele at hm.edu  Wed Apr 18 12:23:04 2012
From: poppele at hm.edu (Werner Poppele)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 13:23:04 +0200
Subject: [OSM-newbies] Avoiding many changesets
In-Reply-To: <CA+z=q=vduQFJ93Z_7gvgOUm85aJvfvx+mUmv6tm9PyRqeWY_9Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A5B1053698044286AB27D66CE25E0C46@Fred>
	<CA+z=q=vduQFJ93Z_7gvgOUm85aJvfvx+mUmv6tm9PyRqeWY_9Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F8EA418.60607@hm.edu>

Steve Bennett wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 5:09 AM, David Litke<dwlitke at comcast.net>  wrote:
>> A have a dozen or so changesets so far, and I realized I forgot to add the
>> source=survey tag to my edits. If I make this single change, I end up with
>> yet another changeset. It seems soon I will have too many changesets to keep
>> track of.
> What do you mean by "keep track of"? What do you want to do with them?
>
> Me, I probably have thousands of changesets - I don't really pay
> attention to them. The data is what matters to me, now the
> changeset...
>
> Steve
>
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
> newbies at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies
JOSM keeps track of the last 15 changesets in its setupfile, normally in 
C:\Documents and Settings\<USERNAME>\Application Data\JOSM on Windows or 
$HOME/.josm on UNIX-based operating systems.
The filename is preferences.xml.

Or login at http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/<USER> and go to the edits 
you made. There is the full history of all of your changesets you ever 
created.

WernerP



From stevagewp at gmail.com  Thu Apr 19 07:44:57 2012
From: stevagewp at gmail.com (Steve Bennett)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 16:44:57 +1000
Subject: [OSM-newbies] How to draw land-use areas
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20120416212020.054a5460@mail.earthlink.net>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415104922.0fa93958@mail.adelphia.net>
	<201204152241.08142.r.h.michel+osm@gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415141200.0fa96de0@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAJ6DwMDm59K9zoo3Hu8pSTpF4=DbWHWcPW8yCM9ZkCSEqyK-YQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415171048.0fa97bf8@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAMexNt5QxS9gt_nu70vj50Lofh=VPmO+MJDM1PXhPcQSyA4o2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbCdJiLF6gXUGP-crMxSit6hJZPkM6KHO7BhxzQLO9E=YiEeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20120416183319.02c4ad60@mail.earthlink.net>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20120416212020.054a5460@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CA+z=q=t8kkG_P1C40VwBp55pASW5VGu=BNRMxANA6y0-xFovxA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Alan Mintz
<Alan_Mintz+OSM at earthlink.net> wrote:
> In my view, OSM's lack of support for roads (which are?? polygons, not
> lines) as polygons is a bug in dire need of fixing.?
> Technically, everything is a polygon, since a line cannot exist in the
> physical world.

The line vs area debate is a perennial one and will not be solved any
time soon. Least of all on the newbies mailing list :)

In favour of lines:
- much easier routing
- much easier to re-use for many purposes: most of the time, the
information that people want about roads is essentially linear.
- easier to edit
- less information required to create and maintain
- better rendering at low zoom levels
- more flexible rendering (how would you render an area as a dashed line?)

In favour of areas:
- more precise
- allow calculations of other interesting kinds of information
- better representation of the "real world".
- less subjectivity
- better rendering at high zoom levels

This trade-off also comes up with rivers (riverbanks vs a line
representing the centre)...maybe other things too.

Me, I think the only real solution is a neat way to map both a line
and an area, simultaneously. Draw an area, and also a line, tag them
appropriately, and link between them. Then a renderer that can do a
good job of areas could ignore the line, and vice versa.

Steve


From jcg.sturdy at gmail.com  Thu Apr 19 22:40:29 2012
From: jcg.sturdy at gmail.com (John Sturdy)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 22:40:29 +0100
Subject: [OSM-newbies] How to draw land-use areas
In-Reply-To: <CA+z=q=t8kkG_P1C40VwBp55pASW5VGu=BNRMxANA6y0-xFovxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20120415104922.0fa93958@mail.adelphia.net>
	<201204152241.08142.r.h.michel+osm@gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415141200.0fa96de0@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAJ6DwMDm59K9zoo3Hu8pSTpF4=DbWHWcPW8yCM9ZkCSEqyK-YQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120415171048.0fa97bf8@mail.adelphia.net>
	<CAMexNt5QxS9gt_nu70vj50Lofh=VPmO+MJDM1PXhPcQSyA4o2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADbCdJiLF6gXUGP-crMxSit6hJZPkM6KHO7BhxzQLO9E=YiEeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20120416183319.02c4ad60@mail.earthlink.net>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20120416212020.054a5460@mail.earthlink.net>
	<CA+z=q=t8kkG_P1C40VwBp55pASW5VGu=BNRMxANA6y0-xFovxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFJf9KP0mhFsV_orvKG1RBX_RzXerdYfUmpWj48DgDFWXb+w_A@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 7:44 AM, Steve Bennett <stevagewp at gmail.com> wrote:

> Me, I think the only real solution is a neat way to map both a line
> and an area, simultaneously. Draw an area, and also a line, tag them
> appropriately, and link between them. Then a renderer that can do a
> good job of areas could ignore the line, and vice versa.

This is already sometimes done for rivers, with "waterway=river" for
the line, and "waterway=riverbank" for the boundary of the area.

__John


From sramij at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 27 12:20:24 2012
From: sramij at yahoo.com (rami jiossy)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 04:20:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [OSM-newbies] (no subject)
Message-ID: <1335525624.30401.YahooMailNeo@web140316.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

http://techprepper.com/wp-content/plugins/tweetmeme/.log/bmorn.html?agz=qi.jazg&zny=znnz.gg&ffnizir=kmgo
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From sramij at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 27 14:25:08 2012
From: sramij at yahoo.com (rami jiossy)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 06:25:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [OSM-newbies] (no subject)
Message-ID: <1335533108.8203.YahooMailNeo@web140307.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

http://djmedieval.com/wp-content/plugins/google-sitemap-generator/bmorn.html?yna=ffyq.jgj&ffg=gg.gz&ggi=dmyq
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From ma.reiter at gmail.com  Sun Apr 29 07:38:25 2012
From: ma.reiter at gmail.com (Manfred A. Reiter)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 08:38:25 +0200
Subject: [OSM-newbies] European school project - a little help requested
Message-ID: <CAEsUX0L2RhdNuB9ashaLUfh04NtcEThBJKYoVE_CuU4287y3eQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

5 countries (PT, RO, SL, TR and D) are working togehter in an european
 "Comenius project" called "BoostOSM"

We produce a wiki about the project
- the first (common) part *should be* in englisch
- the second (individual) part will be in the resp. languges of our partner.

We produced the first part.
As I wrote it, it is in "DEnglish" :-( ;-)

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Life_Long_Learning_Mapping_Project_-_EU-Comenius:_BoostOSM_-_DE3_LLP-Com-SV_(PAD)

Question:
Is here on the list sombody how could help us to transfer the wiki into
a wiki which contains "Oxford - English" ;-)

Thanks in advance


-- 
## Manfred Reiter
## Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
## See: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
## INGOTs Assessor Trainer
## (International Grades in Open Technologies)
## www.theingots.org
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From ve6srv at gmail.com  Sun Apr 29 17:26:54 2012
From: ve6srv at gmail.com (James Ewen)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 10:26:54 -0600
Subject: [OSM-newbies] European school project - a little help requested
In-Reply-To: <CAEsUX0L2RhdNuB9ashaLUfh04NtcEThBJKYoVE_CuU4287y3eQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEsUX0L2RhdNuB9ashaLUfh04NtcEThBJKYoVE_CuU4287y3eQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMexNt7BNeHFbKZ7RWVpdgXDz25CGZCartHkRCDNBJcPOkxhPQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 12:38 AM, Manfred A. Reiter <ma.reiter at gmail.com> wrote:

> We produced the first part.
> As I wrote it, it is in "DEnglish" :-( ;-)
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Life_Long_Learning_Mapping_Project_-_EU-Comenius:_BoostOSM_-_DE3_LLP-Com-SV_(PAD)
>
> Question:
> Is here on the list sombody how could help us to transfer the wiki into
> a wiki which contains "Oxford - English" ;-)

The page linked above contains information written better than MOST
native English speakers would produce. Links to the various native
language pages look like they need help being translated to the other
various languages. Are there more pages linked that should contain
English contents?

-- 
James
VE6SRV


From ma.reiter at gmail.com  Sun Apr 29 18:31:32 2012
From: ma.reiter at gmail.com (Manfred A. Reiter)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 19:31:32 +0200
Subject: [OSM-newbies] European school project - a little help requested
In-Reply-To: <CAMexNt7BNeHFbKZ7RWVpdgXDz25CGZCartHkRCDNBJcPOkxhPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEsUX0L2RhdNuB9ashaLUfh04NtcEThBJKYoVE_CuU4287y3eQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMexNt7BNeHFbKZ7RWVpdgXDz25CGZCartHkRCDNBJcPOkxhPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEsUX0+OPfkmn+hCpHw6_KHmpokMj0GOsdTSQuo3cZcdZ1Dsfg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi James,

2012/4/29 James Ewen <ve6srv at gmail.com>

> On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 12:38 AM, Manfred A. Reiter <ma.reiter at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > We produced the first part.
> > As I wrote it, it is in "DEnglish" :-( ;-)
> >
> >
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Life_Long_Learning_Mapping_Project_-_EU-Comenius:_BoostOSM_-_DE3_LLP-Com-SV_(PAD)
> >
> > Question:
> > Is here on the list sombody how could help us to transfer the wiki into
> > a wiki which contains "Oxford - English" ;-)
>
> The page linked above contains information written better than MOST
> native English speakers would produce.


Thanks a bunch ;-)


> Links to the various native
> language pages look like they need help being translated to the other
> various languages. Are there more pages linked that should contain
> English contents?
>

The idea was not to translate the page above into other languages.
The linked pages shell contain the spefic part of the project.
So they will be different, because the project partners will produce own
content.


> --
> James
> VE6SRV
>
>
73,
Manfred ... BTW ... DL2VX ;-)
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From poppele at hm.edu  Mon Apr 30 12:29:16 2012
From: poppele at hm.edu (Werner Poppele)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 13:29:16 +0200
Subject: [OSM-newbies] newbies@openstreetmap.org
Message-ID: <4F9E778C.30402@hm.edu>

Does anybody knows where I can get the commandline parameters JOSM 
understands ? I read the JOSM help but couldn't find them. Thanks a lot.

WernerP


From p.rieffel at uni-muenster.de  Mon Apr 30 12:48:34 2012
From: p.rieffel at uni-muenster.de (Philippe Rieffel)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 13:48:34 +0200
Subject: [OSM-newbies] newbies@openstreetmap.org
In-Reply-To: <4F9E778C.30402@hm.edu>
References: <4F9E778C.30402@hm.edu>
Message-ID: <CABxDK3uD_U9D+vYFoCb79V5LfLqapKoBtpGubmn4Ec9aNEaogA@mail.gmail.com>

A quick Google Search brought up this page (thus from the josm help...)
http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/CommandLineOptions

Or do you need more?
hope that helps,.
Philippe

2012/4/30 Werner Poppele <poppele at hm.edu>

> Does anybody knows where I can get the commandline parameters JOSM
> understands ? I read the JOSM help but couldn't find them. Thanks a lot.
>
> WernerP
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> newbies mailing list
> newbies at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/newbies<http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies>
>
>


-- 
*Philippe Rieffel, B.Sc.*
Institut f?r Geoinformatik - GI at School
Weseler Str. 253
D-48151 M?nster
 Tel.: +49 (251) 83-30011

http://www.gi-at-school.de
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From poppele at hm.edu  Mon Apr 30 13:11:45 2012
From: poppele at hm.edu (Werner Poppele)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:11:45 +0200
Subject: [OSM-newbies] newbies@openstreetmap.org
In-Reply-To: <CABxDK3uD_U9D+vYFoCb79V5LfLqapKoBtpGubmn4Ec9aNEaogA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F9E778C.30402@hm.edu>
	<CABxDK3uD_U9D+vYFoCb79V5LfLqapKoBtpGubmn4Ec9aNEaogA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F9E8181.5010500@hm.edu>

Philippe Rieffel wrote:
> A quick Google Search brought up this page (thus from the josm help...)
> http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/CommandLineOptions
>
> Or do you need more?
> hope that helps,.
> Philippe
>
> 2012/4/30 Werner Poppele <poppele at hm.edu <mailto:poppele at hm.edu>>
>
>     Does anybody knows where I can get the commandline parameters JOSM
>     understands ? I read the JOSM help but couldn't find them. Thanks
>     a lot.
>
>     WernerP
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     newbies mailing list
>     newbies at openstreetmap.org <mailto:newbies at openstreetmap.org>
>     http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> /Philippe Rieffel, B.Sc./
> Institut f?r Geoinformatik - GI at School
> Weseler Str. 253
> D-48151 M?nster
> Tel.: +49 (251) 83-30011
>
> http://www.gi-at-school.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
> newbies at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies
Thank you very much ! Thats what i needed. I guess I am suffered from a 
temporary blindness...
WernerP

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From p.rieffel at uni-muenster.de  Mon Apr 30 13:46:29 2012
From: p.rieffel at uni-muenster.de (Philippe Rieffel)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:46:29 +0200
Subject: [OSM-newbies] newbies@openstreetmap.org
In-Reply-To: <4F9E8181.5010500@hm.edu>
References: <4F9E778C.30402@hm.edu>
	<CABxDK3uD_U9D+vYFoCb79V5LfLqapKoBtpGubmn4Ec9aNEaogA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F9E8181.5010500@hm.edu>
Message-ID: <CABxDK3vZBwN_QFLGnBRDLE3fVEtC8iX_K7L=mU2sN12NhYH8pw@mail.gmail.com>

You are welcome :)

2012/4/30 Werner Poppele <poppele at hm.edu>

> **
> Philippe Rieffel wrote:
>
> A quick Google Search brought up this page (thus from the josm help...)
> http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/CommandLineOptions
>
> Or do you need more?
> hope that helps,.
> Philippe
>
> 2012/4/30 Werner Poppele <poppele at hm.edu>
>
>> Does anybody knows where I can get the commandline parameters JOSM
>> understands ? I read the JOSM help but couldn't find them. Thanks a lot.
>>
>> WernerP
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> newbies mailing list
>> newbies at openstreetmap.org
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Philippe Rieffel, B.Sc.*
> Institut f?r Geoinformatik - GI at School
> Weseler Str. 253
> D-48151 M?nster
>  Tel.: +49 (251) 83-30011
>
> http://www.gi-at-school.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing listnewbies at openstreetmap.orghttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies
>
>  Thank you very much ! Thats what i needed. I guess I am suffered from a
> temporary blindness...
> WernerP
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> newbies mailing list
> newbies at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies
>
>


-- 
*Philippe Rieffel, B.Sc.*
Institut f?r Geoinformatik - GI at School
Weseler Str. 253
D-48151 M?nster
 Tel.: +49 (251) 83-30011

http://www.gi-at-school.de
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