[Osmf-talk] Will it ever end?

Kathleen Danielson kathleen.danielson at gmail.com
Sat Dec 6 18:19:27 UTC 2014

I have tried to stay out of this conversation as I am now a board member
and don't want to get sucked into the "drama" that seems to have plagued
the board for the past few years. I also don't want to attract attention to
myself that might make me a target for the personal attacks, veiled or not,
that are now becoming monthly occurrences on this list.

Still, with proxy voting about to end, I feel I need to speak up.

On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org> wrote:

> Hi,
> On 12/06/2014 03:54 PM, Marc Zoutendijk wrote:
> > Given all the shit that is now going on on this list, I'm more and more
> regretting that I just renewed my membership...
> That is a sentiment that is often shared and echoed.
> However, let us not forget that very often it is not really "shit that
> is happening on this list" but instead "shit that has happened in real
> life in the past", and shit that has often been swept under the rug in
> the name of trying to achieve harmony, looking forward, emphasizing the
> common goal, etc.etc.etc.
> There's a balance to be struck. We don't want to go over the old shit
> time and time again. But simply ignoring it won't work either; it's just
> like in any personal relationship where you will certainly not expect
> perfection but if you swallow too much without actually discussing it
> then there comes a point where you can't go onand you'll end up sitting
> on a relationship counsellor's sofa in the best case, or just break up.
> Most calls for harmony on this list have really suggested a good way
> forward - they have usually been limited to "now be quiet already", but
> I think we have been quiet about too many things for too long and that's
> precisely what creates acrimonious discussions later.
> There must be a civilized way to discuss shortcomings - even if they are
> shortcomings of an individual. There must be ways to say: I do not think
> that person X should be entrusted with Y because of Z, and there must be
> ways for this to happen in a factual environment.
> Fred, I really don't think this is a fair assessment. These old arguments
do need to be resolved, but I can't figure out why these mailing lists are
the right venue. Even worse, the OSMF Board, and by extension the
Foundation itself has become the stage where these years old fights are
being hashed out. This "shit on the mailing lists" is bad blood between
maybe half a dozen people, and we've let it hold the Foundation hostage.
Yes, it needs to be resolved, but I'm not sure why the rest of us have to
be along for the ride. You are all adults. You should behave like adults.
Stop hiding behind passive aggressive moves and counter moves, and for the
love of God stop holding this massively important project hostage for the
sake of six (or so) egos.

I am so incredibly embarrassed for all of you, and for all of us, that this
is the state of leadership within OSM. We have so much good work to do, and
instead we're doing this. For months, this is all we've been able to
accomplish, and if the Ordinary Resolution passes tomorrow we will keep
doing this for at the very least six more weeks, and in the end, as you
say, we'll just have swept it under the rug again.

I want to help OpenStreetMap, and I want to want to help OpenStreetMap.
Each of you active participants in these fights is making it incredibly
difficult for me to do either.

> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
> _______________________________________________
> osmf-talk mailing list
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