[Osmf-talk] Running

Steve Coast steve at asklater.com
Thu Oct 23 21:20:19 UTC 2014


Fred

I try new things. Osm plus worked out great. Map club didn't. Both were great learning experiences. There are lots more - my kickstarter project was  great for example.

You have a lot of energy and emotion - why don't you try new things? I promise it's more fun than spending your time trying to drag people down.

Steve

> On Oct 23, 2014, at 3:12 PM, Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> On 10/23/2014 04:57 PM, steve at asklater.com wrote:
>> I left a few years ago because I thought I was part of the problem and
>> was holding things back. It doesn't look like that was entirely the
>> case.
> 
> After leaving the OSMF board, you have started two initiatives that
> were, at least partly, in competition with OSMF.
> 
> You started "MapClub" as a club for mappers to talk to each other and
> perhaps buy a few servers to offer services of interest to members. I
> gather that this has not really taken off and you're not pursuing that
> any more. Please correct me if I am wrong.
> 
> You also started "OSM Plus" which was partly a conference but partly you
> were also testing the waters for a membership-based organisation; I
> don't know what the status is. "OSM Plus" posed as an elite circle for
> business people to discuss OSM out of the public eye, and as a place
> where questions were finally answered.
> 
> Both these initiatives were the result of a certain playful and
> disruptive attitude that, years ago, helped you found OpenStreetMap
> against players like the Ordnance Survey; in these cases, alas, the
> target of the disruption was OSMF which in your eyes didn't do enough to
> cater to these audiences. I can only guess why you didn't choose to set
> up a "commercial users working group" in OSM instead - my guess is that
> you felt it was a waste of your time to achieve something in OSMF when
> you could also go it alone.
> 
> I was very uncomfortable from the start about having you listening in to
> OSMF board communications as a "chairman emeritus" and at the same time
> running something that I perceived as competing. But what was worse, you
> even involved Henk and Oliver, two sitting board members, in your
> organisation
> (https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2013/03/21/join-osm-plus-the-openstreetmap-commercial-us/),
> something which in my mind was at least stretching their loyality and it
> was thoroughly improper. It was one of those things where *everyone* who
> heard about it said "uh that's a bit fishy" but my protests behind the
> scenes were ignored. The whole thing culminated in the local organisers
> of SOTM Birmingham threatening to pull out because you were having Henk
> plan a OSM-Plus conference day right next to SOTM Birmingham and Henk
> was essentially supposed to acquire sponsors for both organisations -
> something which was perceived by everyone but those involved with
> OSM-Plus as a giant conflict of interest. (Henk then announced he'd
> pause his involvement with OSM Plus for the duration of the conference
> but still maintained that there had not ever been any conflict of
> interest.)
> 
> SOTM Birmingham turned out to be the least commercially successful OSMF
> SOTM conference to date, which could of course have had any number of
> other reasons.
> 
> Even when OSMF started to take on corporate members, each of these
> applications would go have to go through the hands of Henk (for signing
> them up) and Oliver (for sending them an invoice) - precisely the two
> board members whose portraits (at least until very recently) proudly
> shone from the osmplus.co web site.
> 
>> Since approximately then I've got married and had kids and see
>> things in a different light.
> 
> Does this different light now let you see how you made things difficult
> for the whole board back then with the actions I described above, and
> have your marriage and kids let you mature to a point where you can
> honestly say that such scheming is now beneath you? Have you shut down
> "OSM Plus", or will businesses continue to have to decide whether to
> give money to OSMF or OSM Plus?
> 
> Bye
> Frederik
> 
> -- 
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
> 
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