[Osmf-talk] Reaching out and diversity (Was: Re: AGM and board elections)

[Dan Stowell]

2014-09-26 22:19 GMT+01:00 Steve Doerr <doerr.stephen at gmail.com>:
> On 26/09/2014 15:54, John Crowley wrote:
> > In my years working in communities, I keep seeing the same pattern. Someone speaks up about misogyny or other aggression in general, then someone demands specific evidence, silencing the conversation. It is often not intended, but those seeking data should realize that they need to start by listening, not challenging.
>
> No they don't. The people making accusations need to provide evidence. Otherwise it's defamation. If there's no evidence, they made it up - simple as that.

Steve, I really do understand your wish for evidence, it's an
important motivation. But firstly, it's not defamation if people have
referred to previous experience without identifying the alleged. It
would be defamation if they were identifying the alleged. (This
highlights at least one reason why it's problematic to demand
evidence.) Secondly, it's really quite rude to say that if there's no
supporting evidence, "they made it up". If someone witnesses something
but we don't see evidence beyond their own testimony, we don't usually
assume that it's fabricated, do we?

Other people have already put it better than me. To quote: "Dear men:
the big mistake we could make and need to avoid is to look at recent
mailing list postings, not see anyone blatantly bashing women, and
assume there's not a problem. Sexism happens in quiet ways publicly
and loud ways privately - off-list posts, quick exchanges on IRC,
sexual harassment at every tech conference ever. Outing those
encounters can be socially impossible, or it can even be a legal
matter. This is one place where [citation needed] is incredibly
inappropriate."

Best
Dan