[Osmf-talk] Reaching out and diversity (Was: Re: AGM and board elections)

Derick Rethans osm at derickrethans.nl
Tue Sep 30 10:11:15 UTC 2014

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

> 2014-09-29 11:14 GMT+02:00 Derick Rethans <osm at derickrethans.nl>:
> > On Sun, 28 Sep 2014, Simon Poole wrote:
> > 
> > > I believe Kathleen is mistaken when she points to the childcare 
> > > "affair" and claims that it is a running gag inside OSM. I haven't 
> > > met anybody in the community that doesn't consider it an 
> > > unfortunate collision of wrong expectations, a complicated subject 
> > > matter with lots of regional differences and our general tendency 
> > > to bike shed tagging, ending in a big mess. I'm not not 
> > > discounting gender as one of the contributing ingredients to the 
> > > mess, but it clearly wasn't the only one.
> >
> > I'm afraid you're wrong on this one. I've heard it on several 
> > occasions in the background as a "running gag". Because you haven't 
> > heard of it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
> The reason for the proposal to be rejected was based on the proposal itself
> though, not on the topic. FWIW, there is already a second proposal which
> tries to improve things and resolve the issues found in the first one:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/childcare
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/childcare2.0
> Frankly, for me, saying that childcare is a topic for women is at least a
> very traditional point of view (if not sexism by itself), it is something
> that was true for my grandparents and maybe partly for my parents, but
> definetely is not part of my own experiences.

I don't think I quite said that.

I'll come back on the childcare tag in my reply to Frederik.


> > JOSM has currently 2 presets for facilities where women are 
> > objectified. Why are stripclubs and brothels even presets when there 
> > is a whole section of education related presets missing? *This* is 
> > what needs to change.
> agree for brothel (at least in the western context, I have read that 
> there is sextourism by women going to "poor" countries far from home), 
> but the term stripclub can refer just as well to businesses with 
> female customers.

Really? How many of the 456 stripclubs (or 1581 brothels) in the 
database do you think cater for female (or LBGT…) audiences?

> In my opinion we should not let our mapping be censored by political 
> guidelines. I am not advocating for brothels here, but I think that 
> the map is simply depicting the world as it is (and the more inclusive 
> our mapper community is, the more this picture gets complete). The 
> reason for having a brothel in the database is that it is there in the 
> real world, too. It is not something that interests only men (as 
> potential clients) to see where the brothels are, this is also 
> something women and families with young children might be interested 
> in, something that is useful for social spatial analysis, etc.

Absolutely. I'm not saying we should not map them. 

I am against them being promoted as a possible thing to map, right in 
between JOSM's Leisure's "Horse Riding" and "Playground". That gives off 
a really wrong signal-especially when you're showing of JOSM to a group 
of newbies doing mapping for HOT.

The presets don't have all the things we can map, and people who want to 
map brothels are not prohibited to do so. Heck, I have even mapped 
pandas in trees (http://level0.osmz.ru/?url=n1133831166)...


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