[Osmf-talk] HOT discontent - what can we learn?

[Dan Stowell]

Hi,

I'm not a "disenfranchised" person (sorry) but I'd like to offer my perspective.

(My background: UK-based, OSM mapper since 2010. I've joined in HOT
mapping for a couple of years and been involved in London HOT mapping
parties. So, I've been involved in HOT but never in the higher levels
of organisation. I've been too busy to do anything with HOT this year
really.)

I'm largely baffled by the discontent expressed, since I believe
there's plenty of back-and-forth communication between HOT organisers
and other OSM people, and I've never experienced any feeling of there
being two camps. Many key people are key parts of both HOT and OSMF.
That leads me to suspect that a lot of what's going on is, as you say,
"wherever people do something together, there will be discontent".

I see occasional differences in mindset (slightly different attitude
to imports and bulk edits?). I see occasional communication lapses,
but that's inevitable in this work. I see a slightly more
institutional attitude from HOT, yes, and HOT is certainly influenced
by its different balance of priorities than the wider OSM community. I
don't see anything that makes me fundamentally worried. (While on the
other hand, HOT has been a great source of diversity for our mapping
community, bringing lots of people in from around the world, both
richer and poorer nations. I'm happy that there are interesting
candidates from various countries.)

Would I be concerned if there was a large number of HOT organisers on
OSMF? No, it's just a symptom of the fact that there's "a certain kind
of person" who has the time and will to get involved in the
organisational bodies around OSM. It's not a takeover, it's a
correlation. On the other hand, it's definitely true that we need a
diversity of perspectives on how OSM/OSMF is used and how it should be
sustained/developed. Plus I'd like to see that OSMF candidates show
awareness of the importance of maintaining OSM as a long-term
community and resource for many different mapping concerns.

Best
Dan

2015-11-30 18:41 GMT+00:00 Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org>:
> Hi,
>
>    I must admit (as a non-Hottie) that the recent messages here were a
> bit too detailed for me to digest. I am pretty sure HOT have their fair
> number of skeletons in the cupboard, as will any organisation of a given
> age and size, and I can't be bothered to retrace years of discussions in
> the organisation. I also know that wherever people do something
> together, there will be discontent, and the fact that there is
> discontent doesn't necessarily mean that something has been done wrong.
>
> (I do sense a rather authoritarian attempt at getting rid of critical
> voices. Sometimes it is not the presence of discontent, but how it is
> handled that tells you something about an organisation. But then again
> some critical voices can be so unreasonable that kicking them out is the
> only feasible option. I simply lack the HOT insight to judge.)
>
> This is not a list to debate the shortcomings of HOT (unless they were
> so grave that we must stop them from using our name and database). This
> is a list about the OSM Foundation.
>
> What I can clearly see and what is relevant for us on this list:
>
> * Some people are very unhappy with how HOT is being run;
> * some people with a HOT background are standing for OSMF board.
>
> So I would like to know from those who are unhappy with how HOT is being
> run: What are dangers do you see for OSMF? In your eyes, what are the
> strategic steps that the HOT organisation has taken and that you feel
> OSMF should not take because it would be detrimental?
>
> I'm trying to get away from "do not vote for X because they are with
> HOT" here. Skeletons in the closet or not, it is always interesting to
> learn from others how they solved certain issues in another
> organisation. It'd like to hear from those who are dissatisfied with HOT
> (or disenfranchised?) - what should OSMF *not* learn from HOT?
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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