[Osmf-talk] [HOT] [hotosm-membership] Re: Code of Conduct Reminder
Rafael Avila Coya
ravilacoya at gmail.com
Fri Dec 15 17:49:44 UTC 2017
Hi Miriam:
I agree with you: I don't see the need to open yet another mailing list
(although I will be happy if some decide to open a new one anyway), and
to try to collaborate and unify efforts.
But this thread was started by Dale Kunce, President of HOT US inc, who
says things like "I would like to take this opportunity to remind
everyone of the Code of Conduct
https://www.hotosm.org/hot_code_of_conduct. It will be enforced and
offenders will be asked to leave our community", when OSM hasn't got any
CoC.
That's quite worrying. And this makes me even more sure of what I said
in another email:
"Any code of conduct will make people more or less autocensure. I can't
see any interest of having that thing, unless for control."
Etiquette is just a series of guidelines that, as far as I know, have
never been enforced by anyone. Correct me if I am wrong.
See for example the different answers to Ralf Stephan email [1]:
One user simply answered his question, saying a fast way to mass square
buildings.
Another said he was offensive, and that any user (whether (s)he uses iD
or JOSM or any other editor) is free not to square buildings anyway.
Me myself I thought his "I hate iD devs." just meant that not having a
tool to easily create squared buildings in iD is a bad thing
(disclaimer: I consider iD a good editor, with his pros and cons, and
that can be improved, like JOSM and other editors, although I seldom use
it - I prefer JOSM).
But others, including Dale Kunce, started to say that CoC would be
applied, regardless of not being a list under the control of HOT US
inc., and that's unacceptable. At least while OSM community is not under
the rule of HOT's CoC.
Have all a wonderfull (and plenty of freedom of speech) weekend,
Rafael.
[1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/hot/2017-December/014063.html
On 15/12/17 17:25, Miriam Mapanauta wrote:
> It will be great if we don't open more mailing lists and we try to
> collaborate and unify efforts in the current lists
>
> Thanks,
>
> M
>
> On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 6:07 AM, Mikel Maron <mikel.maron at gmail.com
> <mailto:mikel.maron at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> The hot at openstreetmap.org <mailto:hot at openstreetmap.org> mailing
> list is not subject to any more restrictions than any other OSMF
> maintained list. It is not restricted to HOT members and partners,
> nor is it subject to HOT governance.
>
> Here is my response from yesterday clarifying, in case you missed it.
>
> > Sure, a simple clarification. The OSMF hosted mailing lists fall under the etiquette and moderation guidelines at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Etiquette.
> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Etiquette.> The HOT Code of
> Conduct applies to different domains and set of actors, most
> especially Voting Members of HOT.
>
> I don't see value in an additional mailing list myself, but rather
> encourage better and more intentional use of the resources we have.
>
> * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
>
>
> On Friday, December 15, 2017, 6:54:56 AM EST, <martin at noblecourt.eu
> <mailto:martin at noblecourt.eu>> wrote:
>
>
> Dear all,
>
> This is actually another interesting topic!
> If we move for a more general mailing list on international
> development/humanitarian topics (not restricted to the HOT membership
> and partners), I would suggest maybe not to use the "humanitarian" word
> that is only describing a subset of this scope of activities.
> Since development can be confusing with IT development, I would suggest
> something like international at openstreetmap.org
> <mailto:international at openstreetmap.org>
>
> However creating doesn't always do the trick: we've seen it with the
> hot-francophone mailing list that was created to generate more
> exchanges
> between Francophone countries (in particular Africa & Haiti) on
> development topics and is not super successful because the communities
> we wanted to exchange with are not big fans of mailing lists for
> cultural reasons.
>
> Best
>
> Martin
>
> On 15/12/2017 12:42, Milo van der Linden wrote:
> > Could we ask the OSMF if we can set up a
> > humanitarian at openstreetmap.org
> <mailto:humanitarian at openstreetmap.org> mailing list that is not
> subject of HOT
> > restrictions and open to everyone under the same rules and
> regulations
> > of other OSM mailinglists?
> >
> > 2017-12-14 18:40 GMT+01:00 nicolas chavent
> > <nicolas.chavent at gmail.com <mailto:nicolas.chavent at gmail.com>>:
> >
> >> Dear all HOT Us Inc members, subscribers of the hot at openstreetmap
> >> mailing-list and OSMF members,
> >>
> >> There's is something weird in Dale Kunce (HOT US Inc President and
> >> OSMF member) in this email announcing that the HOT US Inc Code of
> >> Conduct https://www.hotosm.org/hot_code_of_conduct
> <https://www.hotosm.org/hot_code_of_conduct>[1] will be
> >> enforced on the hot at openstreetmap mailing-list (an OpenStreetMap
> >> mailing list to discuss uses of OSM in the humanitarian and
> >> development sectors [1]) which like other OpenStreetMap thematic
> >> mailing lists [2] (software development, tagging etc ...) and other
> >> discussions fora (wiki, forum etc) belong to the commons of the
> >> OpenStreetMap project and is regulated via the OSMF and the OSM
> >> members and is yet not subject to agreed upon and enforced CoC as
> >> reminded by the last OSMF election discussions [3].
> >>
> >> It would be beneficial for the regulations of the OpenStreetMap
> >> commons, that the President of HOT US Inc refrain from enforcing his
> >> own organization's conversational policy and procedures (which has
> >> never been voted by the HOT US Inc membership) over an OSM mailing
> >> list and narrow his focus and actions on the resources of his own
> >> organizations (membership mailing list, tools etc) or the
> >> conversations of the HOT US Inc membership.
> >> It would also be beneficial to assess and look at the moderation of
> >> the hot at openstreetmap mailing-list from a non HOT US Inc only
> >> perspective, shall we want this list to be the mailing list of
> >> anyone OpenStreeMap members (and not yet members) interested into
> >> the use of OpenStreetMap diversified and decentralized and not the
> >> list of only-one organization of the OpenStreetMap ecosystem active
> >> across the humanitarian and development sectors.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> Nicolas
> >>
> >> [1]: http://lists
> <http://lists>[3].openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
> <http://openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot>
> >> [2]: http://wiki
> <http://wiki>[4].openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
> <http://openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mailing_lists>
> >> [3]: https://lists
> >>
> [5].openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2017-December/subject.html
> <http://openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2017-December/subject.html>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 7:38 PM, Dale Kunce
> <dale.kunce at gmail.com <mailto:dale.kunce at gmail.com>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Earlier today someone on this list made some rude and disparaging
> >>> remarks about the iD developers. This is not the first time an
> >>> outside supporting group has been attacked by members of this
> >>> list. Your words have meaning. Your words can have far greater
> >>> impact than you believe. One individual, not elected, can have a
> >>> huge negative impact that directly affects HOT's mission.
> >>>
> >>> One of HOT's biggest fans and supporters has unsubscribed from
> >>> this list, rightly so, because of these attacks. The individual
> >>> was and is key to helping the OSM community with important
> >>> technology tools that we need to map better.
> >>>
> >>> I would like to take this opportunity to remind everyone of the
> >>> Code of Conduct https://www.hotosm.org/hot_code_of_conduct
> <https://www.hotosm.org/hot_code_of_conduct>[1]. It
> >>> will be enforced and offenders will be asked to leave our
> >>> community if you cannot help us form a positive welcoming
> >>> community. The Code of Conduct is not for some special group to
> >>> enforce the power of a strong CoC lies with the community to
> >>> enforce good positive communication norms.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> sent from my mobile device
> >>>
> >>> Dale Kunce
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> HOT mailing list
> >>> HOT at openstreetmap.org <mailto:HOT at openstreetmap.org>
> >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
> <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot>[2]
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Nicolas Chavent
> >>
> >> Les Libres Géographes
> >>
> >> Projet OpenStreetMap (OSM)
> >>
> >> Projet Espace OSM Francophone (EOF)
> >>
> >> Projet GeOrchestra
> >>
> >> Mobile (FR): +33 (0)6 52 40 78 20 [6]
> >>
> >> Mobile (Bénin): +22962 55 85 91 [7]
> >> Email: nicolas.chavent at gmail.com <mailto:nicolas.chavent at gmail.com>
> >> Skype: c_nicolas
> >> Twitter: nicolas_chavent
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> HOT mailing list
> >> HOT at openstreetmap.org <mailto:HOT at openstreetmap.org>
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
> <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot>[2]
> >
> > --
> >
> > [8]
> >
> > MILO VAN DER LINDEN
> >
> > web: dogodigi [8]
> > tel: +31-6-16598808
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "Membership" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send
> > an email to membership+unsubscribe at hotosm.org.
> <mailto:unsubscribe at hotosm.org.>
> >
> >
> > Links:
> > ------
> > [1] https://www.hotosm.org/hot_code_of_conduct
> <https://www.hotosm.org/hot_code_of_conduct>
> > [2] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
> <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot>
> > [3] http://lists
> > [4] http://wiki
> > [5] https://lists
> > [6] tel:+33%206%2052%2040%2078%2020
> > [7] tel:+229%2062%2055%2085%2091
>
> > [8]
> http://www.dogodigi.net
>
>
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>
>
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>
>
>
>
> --
> _______________
> Saludos y gracias,
>
> Mapanauta
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> HOT mailing list
> HOT at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
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