[Osmf-talk] Why not an OSMF Tasking Manager ? Was:Re: Humanitarian work

Eric Sherman ericandrewsherman at gmail.com
Tue Dec 18 18:45:48 UTC 2018


I believe Facebook mentioned at SOTM 2017 that they had forked off a
version to use internally as well.

On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 12:10 PM Blake Girardot <bgirardot at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Augustin,
>
> An OSM Wide Tasking Manager sounds like a great idea under the
> auspices of the OSMF and appropriate Working Group.
>
> I have helped many people set them up on AWS or bare metal so they can
> break free of the HOT Hegemony(TM).
>
> Happy to help however I can.
>
> Respectfully,
> Blake
>
> On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 1:01 PM Augustin Doury <xhemp at mykolab.com> wrote:
> >
> > Disclaimer : english is not my native language, please don't focus on
> specific vocabulary choices
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > It's not necessarily linked to Humanitarian stuff, because the Tasking
> Manager (TM) [1] software can be used for many other kinds of projects, but
> historically the TM is about humanitarian activations. That's why the idea
> of having an OSMF Humanitarian WG (which I find very great) makes me think
> about an OSMF Tasking Manager, here are some reasons :
> >
> > Tasking Managers are used by thousands of mappers and concern millions
> of edit, the software seems to be an inescapable way of contribution for
> many mappers.
> >
> > IMO the Tasking Manager is a pretty good operational tool, I used it
> personnaly a lot, as a mapper and as a project manager.
> > Running a TM instance could be considered as a coherent concern for OSMF
> which is supposed to encourage the growth, development and distribution of
> free geospatial data.
> >
> > propose a TM instance which is not necessarily linked to Humanitarian
> stuff (but could be)
> >
> > The most used TM is the HOT US Inc instance which is deeply linked to
> humanitarian and development stuff. However the Tasking Manager, as a way
> of contribution, is particularly suitable and widely used for/by those who
> edit the map where OSM base features (buildings, roads, landuses,
> naturals...) still have a huge progress potential and where a lot of
> mappers practice distant mapping on satellite imagery (often in so-called
> "developing countries").
> >
> > IMO these projects must not be connotated as
> "humanitarian/developpment"  (an example here for a road project
> harmonisation in Burkina Faso [2]), they are just OSM projects to improve
> the base map. They are labeled this way just because their creators did not
> really have the choice of another TM.
> >
> > propose a TM instance which is stable and independant of the Area of
> Interest
> >
> > They are many existing instances [3], but most of them are "country
> based", are not always up-to-date (the migration from v2 to v3 is not
> easy), and do not necessarily offer a "guarantee of service".
> >
> > propose a TM instance where OSM contributors can contribute
> independently of any official organisation, especially HOT US Inc
> >
> > Reading last Blake email and following his link to HOT US Inc Guidestare
> page [4], we can see that, for the year 2016, HOT US Inc claims to totals
> 182,000,000 edits in OSM & 31,000 volunteers around the world. About the
> calculation method, the context note says "This is the number of HOT
> volunteers registered on our HOT tasking manager which enables them to
> contribute to HOT's mapping projects." The huge number of edits claimed is
> computed in the same way. You can see also this map [5] on the HOT US Inc
> website which shows how all the TM projects are presented as HOT US Inc
> projects.
> >
> > The problem is that many people who contribute on the "HOT Tasking
> Manager" don't know that it is the "HOT US Inc Tasking Manager" and that
> their volunteer work will be presented as HOT US Inc volunteer work (and
> used notably for story-telling and fund-raising). Or others, like me, don't
> have the choice to contribute, in a pure OSM volunteer way, to the tasks
> without being labeled as "hottie" and see their work reclaimed by somebody
> else.
> >
> > It raises more generally the problem of distinction between HOT and HOT
> US Inc, which has been raised for approximately 4 years in the HOT
> membership and on this OSMF mailing list, and which is IMO the core
> problem. Unfortunately it seems that considering this as an issue is still
> not acceptable for the organisation.
> >
> > Just to avoid any proposition to debate this topic internally within HOT
> US Inc membership, as it has been proposed on other threads, I need to
> remind some context just to explain that it had already been tried before
> without success. > I've been a HOT volunteer contractor in Senegal in 2012
> and resigned from my membership in May 2016, already explaining that "The
> concept of attribution is essential in the OSM project and I feel like HOT
> US Inc, by its communication hegemony, benefits from the work of numerous
> volunteers from South and North who give their time for the HOT/OSM
> project, not for a NGO (which is nowadays in an active fundraising
> campain).[...] HOT US board rejected this approach, saying that there is
> not HOT US Inc, there is just HOT and HOT US Inc is HOT and should not be
> called « US Inc » because it creates dividness within the HOT community."
> Two years before, in 2014, these issues were already raised through a HOT
> US Inc Manifesto of a collective of 15 active hotties [6].
> >
> > --
> >
> > In my opinion OSMF should propose an independant and robust Tasking
> Manager alternative to the OSM community.
> > I don't have skills in Python but would be happy to help define such a
> project and participate to it's implementation and maintenance.
> > If it makes sense, what would be the next steps to make this proposition
> more officially to the OSMF ?
> >
> > Thanks in advance, have a good day,
> >
> > Augustin Doury
> >
> > [1] Tasking Manager - Github page
> > https://github.com/hotosm/tasking-manager
> > [2] Tasking Manager - project #1245 - Burkina Faso, consolidated
> mapping, Base Roads Check
> > https://tasks.hotosm.org/project/1245
> > [3] Wiki OSM - Tasking Manager - Operational installations of the TM
> >
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager#Operational_installations_of_the_Tasking_Manager
> > [4] GuideStar (HOT US Inc profile)
> > https://www.guidestar.org/profile/27-3166713
> > [5] HOT US Inc website
> > https://www.hotosm.org/our-work
> > [6] 2014 HOT US Inc Manifesto of a collective of 15 active hotties
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MMaCNSEvblAgQtxFRCcw8hOnd9WpHJdC3eJXkJLql4I/edit#heading=h.213ghf9zd35p
> >
> >
> > Le 2018-12-17 16:47, Blake Girardot a écrit :
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 6:05 AM Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch> wrote:
> >
> >
> > One of the ways this could/could have been addressed would be do have a
> majority of the HOT board be nominated by the OSMF.
> >
> > Further I don't believe HOT is a charity (in the sense of the UK legal
> construct), naturally to continue to benefit from their US special tax
> status business would need to be executed in an appropriate fashion.
> >
> > Simon
> >
> >
> > You can believe it, HOT US Inc. is a US 501(c)(3) charitable
> organization.
> >
> > https://www.hotosm.org/downloads/2017-Form-990.pdf
> >
> > (our tax filings are available for the past 6 years as well)
> >
> > And a highly rated one for transparency as well:
> >
> > https://www.guidestar.org/profile/27-3166713
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Blake
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Blake Girardot
> OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
> HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
> skype: jblakegirardot
>
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