[Osmf-talk] Why not an OSMF Tasking Manager ? Was:Re: Humanitarian work

Ralph Aytoun ralph.a.aytoun at gmail.com
Wed Dec 19 02:25:30 UTC 2018


I just sit and shake my head in complete bewilderment at the way a few OSM
members are able to influence the OSM community into thinking that
everything in HOT is ugly and despicable.

Just to help you along a bit and clear up some misunderstandings about
Tasking Managers, something you appear not to know going on in the OSM
community.

https://tasks.openstreetmap.us/
http://tasks.osmcanada.ca/
https://tareas.openstreetmap.co
http://taches.francophonelibre.org/
<http://taches.francophonelibre.org/>
http://tasks.openstreetmap.in/
<http://tasks.openstreetmap.in/>
http://osmit-tm.wmflabs.org/
https://tarefas.openstreetmap.pt/  <https://tarefas.openstreetmap.pt/>
http://tareas.openstreetmap.es/  <http://tareas.openstreetmap.es/>
http://tasks2.openstreetmap.se/
http://tasks.osm.ch/  <http://tasks.osm.ch/>

Take your pick.




On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 9:40 PM Steven Johnson <sejohnson8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> The TeachOSM project has an instance of the Tasking Manager[1] dedicated
> largely to educational projects. It is a fork of the HOT TM, so if you want
> something completely different, this isn't it. But there are plenty of
> examples out there for running a TM outside the HOT domain.
>
> [1] https://tasks.teachosm.org/
>
> -- SEJ
> -- twitter: @geomantic
> -- skype: sejohnson8
>
> Wretches, utter wretches, keep your hands from beans! - Empedocles, *Fragments,
> 141.*
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 1:48 PM Eric Sherman <ericandrewsherman at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I believe Facebook mentioned at SOTM 2017 that they had forked off a
>> version to use internally as well.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 12:10 PM Blake Girardot <bgirardot at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Augustin,
>>>
>>> An OSM Wide Tasking Manager sounds like a great idea under the
>>> auspices of the OSMF and appropriate Working Group.
>>>
>>> I have helped many people set them up on AWS or bare metal so they can
>>> break free of the HOT Hegemony(TM).
>>>
>>> Happy to help however I can.
>>>
>>> Respectfully,
>>> Blake
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 1:01 PM Augustin Doury <xhemp at mykolab.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Disclaimer : english is not my native language, please don't focus on
>>> specific vocabulary choices
>>> >
>>> > Hi all,
>>> >
>>> > It's not necessarily linked to Humanitarian stuff, because the Tasking
>>> Manager (TM) [1] software can be used for many other kinds of projects, but
>>> historically the TM is about humanitarian activations. That's why the idea
>>> of having an OSMF Humanitarian WG (which I find very great) makes me think
>>> about an OSMF Tasking Manager, here are some reasons :
>>> >
>>> > Tasking Managers are used by thousands of mappers and concern millions
>>> of edit, the software seems to be an inescapable way of contribution for
>>> many mappers.
>>> >
>>> > IMO the Tasking Manager is a pretty good operational tool, I used it
>>> personnaly a lot, as a mapper and as a project manager.
>>> > Running a TM instance could be considered as a coherent concern for
>>> OSMF which is supposed to encourage the growth, development and
>>> distribution of free geospatial data.
>>> >
>>> > propose a TM instance which is not necessarily linked to Humanitarian
>>> stuff (but could be)
>>> >
>>> > The most used TM is the HOT US Inc instance which is deeply linked to
>>> humanitarian and development stuff. However the Tasking Manager, as a way
>>> of contribution, is particularly suitable and widely used for/by those who
>>> edit the map where OSM base features (buildings, roads, landuses,
>>> naturals...) still have a huge progress potential and where a lot of
>>> mappers practice distant mapping on satellite imagery (often in so-called
>>> "developing countries").
>>> >
>>> > IMO these projects must not be connotated as
>>> "humanitarian/developpment"  (an example here for a road project
>>> harmonisation in Burkina Faso [2]), they are just OSM projects to improve
>>> the base map. They are labeled this way just because their creators did not
>>> really have the choice of another TM.
>>> >
>>> > propose a TM instance which is stable and independant of the Area of
>>> Interest
>>> >
>>> > They are many existing instances [3], but most of them are "country
>>> based", are not always up-to-date (the migration from v2 to v3 is not
>>> easy), and do not necessarily offer a "guarantee of service".
>>> >
>>> > propose a TM instance where OSM contributors can contribute
>>> independently of any official organisation, especially HOT US Inc
>>> >
>>> > Reading last Blake email and following his link to HOT US Inc
>>> Guidestare page [4], we can see that, for the year 2016, HOT US Inc claims
>>> to totals 182,000,000 edits in OSM & 31,000 volunteers around the world.
>>> About the calculation method, the context note says "This is the number of
>>> HOT volunteers registered on our HOT tasking manager which enables them to
>>> contribute to HOT's mapping projects." The huge number of edits claimed is
>>> computed in the same way. You can see also this map [5] on the HOT US Inc
>>> website which shows how all the TM projects are presented as HOT US Inc
>>> projects.
>>> >
>>> > The problem is that many people who contribute on the "HOT Tasking
>>> Manager" don't know that it is the "HOT US Inc Tasking Manager" and that
>>> their volunteer work will be presented as HOT US Inc volunteer work (and
>>> used notably for story-telling and fund-raising). Or others, like me, don't
>>> have the choice to contribute, in a pure OSM volunteer way, to the tasks
>>> without being labeled as "hottie" and see their work reclaimed by somebody
>>> else.
>>> >
>>> > It raises more generally the problem of distinction between HOT and
>>> HOT US Inc, which has been raised for approximately 4 years in the HOT
>>> membership and on this OSMF mailing list, and which is IMO the core
>>> problem. Unfortunately it seems that considering this as an issue is still
>>> not acceptable for the organisation.
>>> >
>>> > Just to avoid any proposition to debate this topic internally within
>>> HOT US Inc membership, as it has been proposed on other threads, I need to
>>> remind some context just to explain that it had already been tried before
>>> without success. > I've been a HOT volunteer contractor in Senegal in 2012
>>> and resigned from my membership in May 2016, already explaining that "The
>>> concept of attribution is essential in the OSM project and I feel like HOT
>>> US Inc, by its communication hegemony, benefits from the work of numerous
>>> volunteers from South and North who give their time for the HOT/OSM
>>> project, not for a NGO (which is nowadays in an active fundraising
>>> campain).[...] HOT US board rejected this approach, saying that there is
>>> not HOT US Inc, there is just HOT and HOT US Inc is HOT and should not be
>>> called « US Inc » because it creates dividness within the HOT community."
>>> Two years before, in 2014, these issues were already raised through a HOT
>>> US Inc Manifesto of a collective of 15 active hotties [6].
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> >
>>> > In my opinion OSMF should propose an independant and robust Tasking
>>> Manager alternative to the OSM community.
>>> > I don't have skills in Python but would be happy to help define such a
>>> project and participate to it's implementation and maintenance.
>>> > If it makes sense, what would be the next steps to make this
>>> proposition more officially to the OSMF ?
>>> >
>>> > Thanks in advance, have a good day,
>>> >
>>> > Augustin Doury
>>> >
>>> > [1] Tasking Manager - Github page
>>> > https://github.com/hotosm/tasking-manager
>>> > [2] Tasking Manager - project #1245 - Burkina Faso, consolidated
>>> mapping, Base Roads Check
>>> > https://tasks.hotosm.org/project/1245
>>> > [3] Wiki OSM - Tasking Manager - Operational installations of the TM
>>> >
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager#Operational_installations_of_the_Tasking_Manager
>>> > [4] GuideStar (HOT US Inc profile)
>>> > https://www.guidestar.org/profile/27-3166713
>>> > [5] HOT US Inc website
>>> > https://www.hotosm.org/our-work
>>> > [6] 2014 HOT US Inc Manifesto of a collective of 15 active hotties
>>> >
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MMaCNSEvblAgQtxFRCcw8hOnd9WpHJdC3eJXkJLql4I/edit#heading=h.213ghf9zd35p
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Le 2018-12-17 16:47, Blake Girardot a écrit :
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 6:05 AM Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > One of the ways this could/could have been addressed would be do have
>>> a majority of the HOT board be nominated by the OSMF.
>>> >
>>> > Further I don't believe HOT is a charity (in the sense of the UK legal
>>> construct), naturally to continue to benefit from their US special tax
>>> status business would need to be executed in an appropriate fashion.
>>> >
>>> > Simon
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > You can believe it, HOT US Inc. is a US 501(c)(3) charitable
>>> organization.
>>> >
>>> > https://www.hotosm.org/downloads/2017-Form-990.pdf
>>> >
>>> > (our tax filings are available for the past 6 years as well)
>>> >
>>> > And a highly rated one for transparency as well:
>>> >
>>> > https://www.guidestar.org/profile/27-3166713
>>> >
>>> > Cheers,
>>> > Blake
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ----------------------------------------------------
>>> Blake Girardot
>>> OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
>>> HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
>>> skype: jblakegirardot
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
>>>
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