[Osmf-talk] [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline status update
Leroy Olivier
leroy.oli at gmail.com
Fri Dec 20 14:25:14 UTC 2019
Hello,
Even if sometimes I fail to follow the topic (due to my poor english) I
found that it is an interesting one. I don't have a good idea of what
should be done but I slightly disagree with @Numo on this point :
@Phil Wyatt don't get me wrong, but adding something there is useless. i
> added Facebook there over one year ago. They don't have shame, no point to
> add companies there, when there's sites and companies that been there for
> years without real consequence. It's just a wiki page that most won't ever
> acknowledge.
>
Maybe the wiki is not the better solution but having a way to illustrate
the "attribution problem" and keep track of it feel important to me. I
don't think this will solve all the problems but at one point we will need
a way to accumulate knowledge and produce some kind of
visualization/quantification either to negotiate (or try) or broadcast it.
The wiki is a good beginning how can we improve it ?
Cheers,
Le ven. 20 déc. 2019 à 14:41, Nuno Caldeira <nunocapelocaldeira at gmail.com>
a écrit :
> @Rihards Thanks. I will try to do that documentation over the holidays.
>
> @Phil Wyatt don't get me wrong, but adding something there is useless. i
> added Facebook there over one year ago. They don't have shame, no point to
> add companies there, when there's sites and companies that been there for
> years without real consequence. It's just a wiki page that most won't ever
> acknowledge.
>
> As an xmas bonus, here's another Facebook company (via Mapbox), Snapchat
> that is using OSM without attribution requirements (funnily there's plenty
> of space for a reasonable and visible calculated mapbox logo and text).
> They probably don't know, nor that they have been asked to comply over a
> year ago, nor have agreed with the license in every aspect of it when
> stated using OSM data, nor read Mapbox TOS, or Mapbox been informed on
> these repeated offenders, nor read the multiples reports in mailing lists,
> nor that they had a employee that ran for OSMF board.
>
> https://map.snapchat.com/
>
> Let's continue to be hypocrites and pretend nothing is going on for over a
> year with these two companies that are corporate members of OSMF and should
> be the first ones to give examples. Enough with excuses.
>
>
> Happy holidays.
>
>
> Às 09:34 de 20/12/2019, Rihards escreveu:
>
> On 20.12.19 09:42, Nuno Caldeira wrote:
>
> hi Pierre,
>
> I have tried that route multiple times in twitter, they will ignore. as
> they ignore emails (even if you CC legal at osmfoundation.org<mailto:legal at osmfoundation.org> <legal at osmfoundation.org>), the license, the mailing list.
> if you can read the attribution clearly here let me
> know https://twitter.com/iamnunocaldeira/status/1207927051669397504?s=19
> this is not manipulated or cropped, straight out of the app.
>
> Nuno, thank you for documenting the attribution concerns.
>
> It is understandable that repeated problems are frustrating. We as OSM
> contributors see so many of them, and by the hundredth case we perceive
> them as repeat offenders.
> I try to remind myself that absolute majority do not do this on purpose,
> and that my perception should not connect a new case to all the previous
> ones. It is harder than it might sound :)
>
> Without diving into specifics of each case, it still seems important to
> have clear documentation on major cases.
> Have you had a chance to put together a dedicated wiki page about Facebook?
> It has been repeated in email threads many times, but if a student came
> around and wanted to put together a research about attribution,
> copyright and whatnot - would they have an easy time getting a complete
> picture of Facebook attitude towards OSM attribution?
>
> It would be crucial for that page to be neutral and avoid accusations,
> even when Occam's razor seems huge and shiny - pure facts would fit
> there best.
>
>
> On Fri, 20 Dec 2019, 00:14 Pierre Béland, <pierzenh at yahoo.fr<mailto:pierzenh at yahoo.fr> <pierzenh at yahoo.fr>> wrote:
>
> Hi Nuno,
>
> How can we react positively suggesting to take care obout OSM
> attribution ? This is an international media and we can benefit by
> having a bit of fun.
>
> Plus this is Christmas coming soon and we need to think positive !
>
> You could make tweet to https://twitter.com/BBCTwo + using
> OpenStreetMap logo image (add @OpenStreetMap as who is on the image)
> + url link to facebook article
> saying
>
> /Merry Christmas from the OpenStreetMap community Happy to /provide
> accurate and detailed maps/ to news medias, governnments, research,
> business, consumers, to respond to disasters, etc. Dont forget -
> Our New Year Best Wishes to have more impact - OpenStreetMap
> Contributors attribution :)/
> /
> /
> Then you could invite OSM contributors on the discussion lists to
> make it Viral by responding !
>
> To show OSM diversity, I would be pleased to respond to the tweet.
>
> /Bonne année, Pierre Béland, du Québec, Canada, fier de supporter
> OpenStreetMap.
> /
>
> ;)
>
>
> Pierre
>
>
> Le jeudi 19 décembre 2019 18 h 16 min 44 s UTC−5, Nuno Caldeira
> <nunocapelocaldeira at gmail.com <mailto:nunocapelocaldeira at gmail.com> <nunocapelocaldeira at gmail.com>>
> a écrit :
>
>
> here's another lovely example from BBC TWO using Strava (i can spot
> the Mapbox logo, not the reasonable calculated ©OpenStreetMap
> contributors). glad BBC attributed Google properly. they probably
> aren't aware it's OpenStreetMap, if they can't read the attribution
> on Strava
> https://www.facebook.com/413132078795966/posts/2468472903261863/
>
> On Fri, 1 Nov 2019, 18:59 Nuno Caldeira,
> <nunocapelocaldeira at gmail.com <mailto:nunocapelocaldeira at gmail.com> <nunocapelocaldeira at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, 1 Nov 2019, 18:05 Simon Poole, <simon at poole.ch
> <mailto:simon at poole.ch> <simon at poole.ch>> wrote:
>
> The fair use point just turned up to illustrate that there
> are limits on what we can expect copyright to do for us (aka
> the tweets from private individuals showing a map excerpt
> that Nuno pointed to) and there is no point in getting upset
> over that there are such limitations.
>
> actually Simon those prints indivuals share on social media is
> sent to their emails by the company (as someone pointed after
> you writing). Strava sends emails of OSM basemap to their users
> without attribution.
> I been testing Strava app today and had a couple of laughts TB.
> tYhere's even more interesting stuff we should take notice when
> doing the attribution guidance. they use Google maps on their
> android app, the routes they display clearly isn't from their
> users (it's not GPS traces as it is impossible to have no
> overlaping traces on mountain regions). I'm sure these routes
> are from OSM and I'm gathering evidence from my contributions
> that this is OSM data. I will get back to it when I get home and
> record a video with clear evidence that it is impossible to be
> their users GPS trace or Google Maps (as they do not have data
> in that regions). That could only come from OSM and I'm sure as
> I added that data and weekly monitor the editing and their
> suggested routes sometimes overlap the same route as it
> displayed different versions of OSM data during the years. --
>
> Rihards
>
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>
--
Olivier Leroy
Docteur Géographie et Environnement
Post-doctorant EVS ANR Rêveries <http://reveries-project.fr/>
06.18.37.18.08
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