[Osmf-talk] Can we untick the Public domain checkbox from our initial choice done during OSM sign up?

[Kathleen Lu]

Some questions, Christoph:
Why would a mapper need to keep a separate record of their contributions,
if the changeset metadata already keeps a record of which contributor made
which edit?
In any event, why would there be any "damage for the OSMF" in any
circumstance, in the hypothetical case of a contributor who did not intend
PD or did not have authority to contributo PD vs a data user?
Are you a lawyer or judge?

On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 1:48 AM Christoph Hormann <chris_hormann at gmx.de>
wrote:

>
> I was originally going to stay out of this topic but since even after
> Paul linked to the clarifying statement about the PD checkbox people
> (including a LWG member) float the idea that this has practical meaning
> for data users at the moment i feel the need to rectify that.  So a few
> points:
>
> * The OSMF (AFAIK) currently does not distribute OSM data under licenses
> other than the ODbL.  So the idea that any data user could in an area
> with exclusively contributions from mappers with the PD checkbox
> checked use the data without following the ODbL is wishful thinking on
> side of data users.  In a court case this would be a preposterous
> approach IMO.  They would be asked where they got the data from and
> that would obviously be the OSMF (directly or indirectly) and that
> would be the end of the argument.
>
> * As i see it the statement made by contributors registering with the PD
> checkbox is neither a modification of the contributor terms nor a
> statement towards anyone other than the OSMF.  In particular it is not
> a statement of assurance that the mapper in question does not make any
> use of data sources that are not PD as long as they are compatible with
> the ODbL and permitted to be used for OSM under the current conditions
> (which is what the mapper ensures under the CTs section 1a).
>
> * Even the statement that only lower damages could be claimed in a court
> case in case it involves data contributed by mappers with the PD
> checkbox checked seems doubtful.  If i work as a mapper for a
> proprietary data company and sign a statement that i regard my
> contributions to them to be under PD that does not in any way affect
> the value of the data they might distribute to customers or the damages
> they might claim in case of illegal use.  So unless a mapper has kept a
> separate record of their contributions before uploading to the OSMF
> servers and licensed that to the data user or when we are talking about
> a PD data import i see no basis for the claim for there to be less
> damage for the OSMF in a court case about use in violation of the ODbL.
>
> Long story short:  The PD checkbox is nothing more than a survey of all
> newly registered contributors on how they view their future
> contributions at the time they register.  That is a valuable thing to
> do (and it might be woth maybe even thinking about a few other survey
> questions to ask).  But it is nothing more.
>
> Note also that any claims for the possibility of using OSM data outside
> the limitations of the ODbL (or any future different license adopted
> using the process defined in the CTs) are also quite dangerous for any
> negotiations with data providers (like aerial imagery etc.) about
> permissions to use their data as a source for OSM.  If a data provider
> might need to fear that permission for using their data in OSM might
> lead to a mapper with the PD checkbox checked to use that data and then
> a data user using the resulting data from within OSM under the
> assumption that it is PD that endangers our chances to be able to use
> such data sources.
>
> --
> Christoph Hormann
> http://www.imagico.de/
>
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>
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