[Osmf-talk] Idea for improved mapping system

[John Whelan]

But then you get the armchair mappers who are mapping in Africa. There 
are some who are not mapping with HOT by the way.  No local association 
but talk to the locals and they know without them the map wouldn't be as 
good as it is.

I think the one who springs to mind one happens to be Norwegian.

Cheerio John

Christopher Beddow wrote on 2020-10-19 18:20:
> 1. Yes, I understand the problems around incentive. So I would say a 
> good way of thought is to look at how to really take the stats like 
> Pascal has visualized and make them into a more fun categorization, 
> but careful to avoid steering users toward wanting to map for the stats.
>
> 2. Aside from that, I wonder if we can agree that we should have a 
> goal as an international community of growing the contributor base. In 
> my opinion this is a great goal, but carrying out any actions toward 
> this goal should be in the hands of local communities, such as 
> chapters or affiliated groups on either a city level (like let's say 
> Polimappers in Milan area) or a regional level (such as OSM LATAM who 
> may be best to engage more users in a country in that region where 
> there are few who are active, or who don't have a country chapter even 
> informally).
>
> 3. What is suggested as an actually responsible, effective, and at 
> least theoretically proven way to recruit serious and dedicated users? 
> Can we know ahead of time who will develop a real care and passion for 
> OSM?
>
> 4. What are, inversely, the most risky things we can do or have done, 
> which are rather proven to result in vandalism, poor edits, extremely 
> short user-lifespans, and therefore detract from the community despite 
> any short term contribution? Gamification was mentioned here but it 
> would be good to re examine specific cases for people like me that 
> don't remember or weren't involved at that time.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 15:05 Rory McCann <rory at technomancy.org 
> <mailto:rory at technomancy.org>> wrote:
>
>     Yes, remember that not everything that counts is counted, and not
>     everything that's counted counts.
>
>     It's OK IMO to have something fun & silly. A UK site showing
>     politican's record in Parliament alongside the number of words the
>     politican spoke, also showed how often they used alliteration, or
>     rhymes. They did that to remind people that these stats shouldn't
>     be taken as gospel.
>
>     If you do something like this, be careful. If you incentivise
>     people to do something and it backfires, people will rightly hold
>     *you* responsible.
>
>     The recent problems with Hacktoberfest has shown how rewarding
>     people for metrics  *can* backfire.
>
>     On Sun, 18 Oct 2020, at 5:13 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>     > Hi,
>     >
>     > On 10/18/20 01:49, TheAdventurer64 wrote:
>     > > A user and I were talking about implementing a system for better
>     > > mapping, as described here:
>     > > https://osmus.slack.com/archives/C029HV951/p1602968516431900
>     >
>     > Please, in the future be so kind and summarize the idea in your
>     e-mail
>     > rather than pointing to a proprietary web page that requires
>     registration.
>     >
>     > I have not read it but I can guess from the responses here what your
>     > idea entails, and I would like to offer a word of caution:
>     >
>     > Gamification is a powerful tool, and with wielding it comes great
>     > responsibility. Most attempts at gamification in the OSM sphere have
>     > either had lasting negative effects or at the very least massive
>     > teething issues. People *will* game the system. If you count how
>     many
>     > changesets they make, then they will split their edits in smaller
>     > chunks. If you count how many objects they change, they will be more
>     > likely to move a complete road with all its nodes by 10
>     centimetres or
>     > write a script to drop the "created_by" tag on thousands of
>     objects. If
>     > you count how long their changeset comments are, they will write and
>     > repeat novels when uploading changesets. If you count how many new
>     > objects someone creates, then they will be more likely to delete and
>     > recreate something than to just improve its geometry.
>     >
>     > The direction that gamification drives people in will never be
>     exactly
>     > what we want and need in OSM, it will always be off by
>     something. You
>     > will not be recruiting new mappers, but new players.
>     >
>     > It can still be beneficial to OSM, but the above needs to be kept in
>     > mind if you want to build something that succeeds.
>     >
>     > On another ("diversity") note, you should be careful not to
>     focus too
>     > much on competitive elements and players who want to climb some
>     ladder;
>     > you might end up motivating people from some regions and genders
>     much
>     > more than others.
>     >
>     > Bye
>     > Frederik
>     >
>     > --
>     > Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org
>     <mailto:frederik at remote.org> ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>     >
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