[Osmf-talk] Africa as a training ground was RE: google Open Buildings usage request

Sun Aug 1 14:47:21 UTC 2021

>
> HOT aren't the only problem, I've seen dubious edits by Apple etc.

Recent OSM Changeset discussions in Ghana might lead you to some more
frightening ones from; Apple, Bolt/GlobalLogic, YouthMappers, individuals
who think that residential roads should be motorway, etc..

Am So., 1. Aug. 2021 um 16:14 Uhr schrieb Heather Leson <
heatherleson at gmail.com>:

> HI folks,
>
> just wondering if someone who is from Africa (one of the ~54 countries) is
> responding here.
>
> Thanks
>
> Heather
>
>
> Heather Leson
> heatherleson at gmail.com
> Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
> Blog: textontechs.com
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 3:37 PM John Whelan <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Some parts of Africa do have a survey department and some do not.  It
>> might be an idea to document those that do.
>>
>> The African highway wiki page might be the place to do it.
>>
>> I'm beginning to suspect we need a new rule on highway classification
>> changes in Africa, don't do it unless you're local.  I tend to use
>> unclassified to connect settlements occasionally I'll go as high as
>> tertiary.
>>
>> I have concerns about projects mapping buildings.  I come across
>> settlements where half the buildings are mapped and nothing has been done
>> for a year or two.  It doesn't help that much when you try to use the
>> number of buildings to estimate the population.
>>
>> I also have major concerns about highways being deleted.  They aren't
>> easy to spot though.  We need some sort of tool?
>>
>> Having said that HOT has added a number of tools to OSM.  The first is
>> the task manager.  Locally in Canada it's been used for imports etc.
>>
>> New mappers are fine with the right tools in their hands.
>>
>> We had a mapathon organised to map buildings in in Edmonton.  The
>> buildings added were of a poor enough quality to create comments on the
>> local email list.  Out of curiosity I got involved with another mapathon,
>> we had a poorer turnout but I only gave them JOSM and the buildings_tool.
>> With half the number of mappers over two hours we managed to map twice as
>> many buildings, some mappers for some odd shapes drew two rectangles then
>> joined them. Either HOT needs to use JOSM and the buildings_tools plugin or
>> it desperately needs a buildings_tools something in iD.
>>
>> To help with validation there is SelectduplicateBuildings.js I've deleted
>> a few thousand duplicates using the todo list.
>>
>> I wanted to import the local bus stops in Ottawa.  There isn't any
>> practical way to map them otherwise.  If you have all the bus stops in the
>> system great, if you only have a few it really doesn't work for route
>> planning.
>>
>> Somehow I got invited to a meeting with the Canadian Minister responsible
>> for Open Data at which I identified we couldn't use their Open Data because
>> of the license.  A few years later we got a new license which has been
>> blessed by OSM's Legal Working Group.
>>
>> The City of Ottawa was kind enough to adopt the same license so now I
>> have my bus stops.
>>
>> Treasury Board are now working with a number of African countries to make
>> their data available under the same license.  What sort of Open Data data
>> license does Zambia have?
>>
>> My understanding is it was the result of a HOT project that decided Maxar
>> to make their imagery available to OSM.
>>
>> HOT aren't the only problem, I've seen dubious edits by Apple etc.
>>
>> HOT are improving, their projects now tend to map only simple things.
>> Their instructions are improving, their work on validation is getting
>> better.   You now need to have a bit of experience before you are allowed
>> to validate.
>>
>> On balance I think that HOT adds value to Africa.  Ideally all mapping
>> would be done by experienced local mappers with ten years experience but
>> unfortunately they aren't enough of them in Africa unlike say Germany.
>>
>> I think what we do need is better work flows for Africa.  There are
>> plenty of smartphones around which are quite capable of adding detail such
>> as village names etc.  What we don't have is a set of simple instructions
>> on how to do it.
>>
>> There is also an education problem in parts of Africa.  To be able to
>> follow instructions you need to be able to read.
>>
>> These things are all interrelated and it isn't black and white.
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>> dfjkman at gmail.com wrote on 8/1/2021 2:12 AM:
>>
>> Hi Shawn,
>>
>> One of the problems is the number of projects on the go at any one time,
>> Africa has more HOT projects on the go than the rest of the world put
>> together, many of them overlap and many of them die a natural death without
>> ever being validated leaving a great deal of mess behind. Many of the HOT
>> mappers are new to OSM and the same few validators tend to be spread over
>> many projects and even they may not know what they are looking at in the
>> satellite imagery, I suspect they also get overwhelmed with the amount of
>> corrections they have to make. I have been in contact with the leads of some
>> of these projects and they have responded well to any advice I have given.
>> Some of the validators also respond well others just move off to other
>> projects. The real problem comes where you have a particular mapper who is
>> unwilling to take the advice given and continues to make the same errors
>> over and over. Worse still they tell you they are doing it for the good of
>> the country so development decisions can be made. The assumption being that
>> Zambia does not have a survey department and is unable to produce their own
>> official ordinance survey maps, something they have been doing for over 50
>> years.
>>
>> Then you get projects that come through and make changes to major road
>> classifications, remove roads that do not appear in imagery but have been
>> mapped by a local mapper and change classifications. After you make
>> corrections the whole thing kicks off again with the next project that comes
>> through with a new hashtag. Sort of like a 'Mad Max' movie. As a local
>> mapper you either run around trying to fix the errors or slink off to some
>> far flung corner and map in peace.
>>
>> That being said interpreting imagery in Africa is not easy, particularly in
>> Zambia as it is highly seasonal, what may appear to be a track in one image
>> may appear as a path in another particularly if the image was taken towards
>> the wet season and everything is greening up and vegetation is encroaching
>> on to the track. Whole well defined roads or tracks may disappear under a
>> tree canopy and what once appeared to be nothing but scrub now looks like a
>> well wooded area. Zambia in particular has a seasonal wetland feature that
>> during the rains resembles a wet meadow and in the dry season, when most
>> imagery is taken, resembles a grassland and may even appear black once it
>> has burnt with wild fires. Some of these 'dambos' will have a temporary pool
>> of water at the lowest point known as a pan. Some will have an ephemeral
>> steam that runs through the centre of them while with another the stream
>> runs to one side of it or there is no stream at all, in the dry season the
>> stream bed may be used as a track, I have often come across these dry stream
>> beds mapped as tracks. A small collection of buildings does not necessarily
>> imply a village but is more likely a small family farm. All this makes
>> Africa not the ideal place for a beginner mapper. It is not a given that a
>> local mapper in one part of Africa will recognise all features in another
>> part of Africa either.
>>
>> Dave
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Shawn K. Quinn <skquinn at rushpost.com> <skquinn at rushpost.com>
>> Sent: 31 July 2021 08:42
>> To: osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org
>> Subject: Re: [Osmf-talk] google Open Buildings usage request
>>
>> On 7/31/21 01:25, dfjkman at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Another point is touched upon by Craig, 'If the same thing had
>> happened in Germany there would have been a riot on this channel'.
>> Africa is treated as the training ground for new mappers, this is all
>> well and good, new mappers are welcome and needed, but the large areas
>> they map and errors introduced are many and varied and can take
>> considerable time and effort to correct and as a result nobody
>> bothers. Nobody actually asks the Africans what they want or whether
>> they mind this mess being created in their backyard, judging by the
>> response to this thread they don't want it. No wonder many in Africa feel
>>
>> they are just the guineapigs for the rest of the world.
>>
>> This concerns me. Both the use of Africa as a training ground without any
>> input from the residents, and the apparent lack of a real, proper training
>> ground for new mappers. While we do have a sandbox, apparently either the
>> new mappers don't know about it or it doesn't fit the needs for practice of
>> mapping new features.
>>
>> At the very least, we should be practicing the ethic "if you wouldn't want
>> someone mapping like that in your city, don't map like that in Africa (or
>> wherever)". Basically, it's a variant of the golden rule.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> --
>> Shawn K. Quinn <skquinn at rushpost.com> <skquinn at rushpost.com>http://www.rantroulette.comhttp://www.skqrecordquest.com
>>
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-- 
-Enock
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