[Osmf-talk] Africa as a training ground was RE: google Open Buildings usage request

[john whelan]

>From conversations I've had with local mappers I think reality is they
accept they need remote mappers to map the basic framework and to correct
obvious errors in the map.

Over time I've seen them become more confident and capable.  However with
poor internet connections adding data to the map is still a problem.

New inexperienced mappers are inexperienced no matter where they live.
Pete has mentioned local communities are running their own projects in the
task manager.  I know certain parts of HOT are good at training new mappers.

Perhaps the time has come to set up a pilot  for I'll say African mappers
specifically to train them.  Basically we need a manual and a restricted
task in task manager and we need very heavy validation.

So can someone preferably based in Africa think of a practical way to
increase the numbers of mappers in Africa so they can take on more of the
mapping?

Thanks John

On Mon, Aug 2, 2021, 17:04 Pete Masters via osmf-talk <
osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> It seems to be a valid request that every remote mapping project
>> started shall have at least one local coordinator, who can
>> actaully help writing and updating the guidelines and oversee
>> validation. This is mostly about about HOT, but generally about any
>> organised remote mapping event.
>>
>
> Hi grin,
>
> Whilst I understand the intent behind what you're saying, I can't agree
> with your blanket solution. I work for HOT, and prior to my current job, I
> worked for many years for MSF (Médecins Sans Frontières), a humanitarian
> NGO. Humanitarian response has benefited in a myriad of ways from
> OpenStreetMap contributions, many of them from remote mappers miles away
> from what they are mapping. In a humanitarian crisis -  a large measles
> outbreak in rural South Sudan, for example - finding a local coordinator to
> write and update guidelines and oversee validation isn't realistic. The
> data provided by OSM contributors can make a real difference to how such a
> response is planned and executed (from epidemiology to resource allocation
> to supply and logistics) and the quicker it is provided, the more impact it
> can have.
>
> Of course, I am not claiming this as a parallel to the Australian bush
> fire example you shared (contexts being very different) and neither do I
> hold the opinion that any project tagged 'humanitarian' should have free
> reign to do whatever it likes, whether remote or local. I just think the
> discussion needs to be a little more nuanced than it currently is in some
> regards.
>
> Also, just to set the record straight a little bit on projects that
> involve the use of the HOT tasking manager (https://tasks.hotosm.org/)...
> There are HOT projects, of course (that HOT staff or volunteers publish and
> manage), but these do not account for all projects. Just a snapshot, I
> know, but currently of the top ten listed, there are three managed by HOT,
> two from an Indian NGO partner supported by HOT and five from local
> communities in Africa, Asia and Latin America.
>
> Once a community or organisation requests project management permissions
> (and is onboarded on how) to use the tasking manager, they take
> responsibility for their own projects. HOT does not direct or gatekeep at
> this point (although it does offer guidance and advice). It is correct to
> call all of these projects tasking manager projects and it is correct to
> call some of them HOT projects.
>
> Lastly, I think these linked conversations about quality and community
> engagement / leadership are super important and they are very live ones
> within HOT right now.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Pete
>
> On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 6:37 PM grin via osmf-talk <
> osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 01 Aug 2021 22:02:21 +0200
>> Dave <dfjkman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > As the person who initiated this thread I just want to make it clear
>> > that I did not intend it to be come a HOT bashing forum rather to
>> > point out that Africa tends to be where mappers come to train, some
>> > to then move on to map elsewhere others to never map again.
>>
>> I do not want to write a lot others already said well, just a comment:
>>
>> It seems to be a valid request that every remote mapping project
>> started shall have at least one local coordinator, who can
>> actaully help writing and updating the guidelines and oversee
>> validation. This is mostly about about HOT, but generally about any
>> organised remote mapping event.
>>
>> Also similarly there shouldn't be machine based updates/imports without
>> human control, and the projects shall have at least one local
>> coordinator to validate the edits.
>>
>> Remote mapping without any local support shall not be organised in
>> general case, neither HOT nor AI, and the edits warned/rejected if it
>> happens.
>>
>> My 2 'cents,
>> grin
>>
>> ps: An interesting experience was the australian bush fire mapping
>> event where (some of the) local people complained pretty loudly that
>> they do not want to have the bush pathways mapped since it changes
>> yearly and it's misleading in their own personal opinion; it was almost
>> impossible to tell from 10000 km away who's right.
>>
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