[Osmf-talk] [OSM-talk] LCCWG Moderation Subcommittee holding public discussions on Etiquette Guidelines

Fri Aug 27 23:45:16 UTC 2021

On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 at 06:04, Maciej Laskowski <osmf-talk at maciej.website>
wrote:

>
> Hi,
> I agree with Darafei Praliaskouski on that. We should use easy to
> understand language as OSM is a worldwide project and we should not expect
> everyone to know English well - I did not know what "innuendo" means either
> :)
> I think words like "deadnaming" are totally OK if we put a little
> explanation next to it, like this: "Bullying or disrespect towards
> individuals, such as retaliation, personal insults, dead-naming (calling a
> transgender person by their former/birth name), or innuendo"
>

Attach a glossary to the document?

e.g.
https://cdn.slidesharecdn.com/ss_thumbnails/glossaryoftermssixthform-110411182449-phpapp01-thumbnail-4.jpg

Thanks

Graeme

> Cheers
> Maciej
>
> 26.08.2021 23:28 john whelan <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com> napisał(a):
>
>
> It would sound as if we almost need to restrict ourselves to a well
> understood subset of English.
>
> Aim the reading age at a 6 year old?
>
> Problem is many mappers are quite well educated so using such language
> would be difficult for them.
>
> Would and could are extremely useful but are recognised as being quite
> advanced in English Second Language teaching.
>
> Again one thing we do perhaps inadvertently is expose many people to
> English which can make them more employable etc. so using English as a
> native would complete with would and could.
>
> We won't touch idiosyncrasies such as calling a box that moves up and down
> a building an elevator.
>
> Perhaps the answer is a simple set of instructions that have been
> translated by someone to an approved reading level for clarity.  I think it
> is called plain language.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 15:40 Amanda McCann <amanda at technomancy.org> wrote:
>
> Hiya all,
>
> I have seen this complaint a few times now. I think there are 2 problems.
> (i) uncommon "technical" words (aka jargon) and (ii) metaphors and idioms.
>
> e.g. “to dead name [somebody]” is an new English verb which means to refer
> to a transgender person using their old name. Sometimes people do it
> deliberately, in order to misgender a transgender person. “to misgender” is
> another new verb (which isn't even in my Firefox's spellchecker!), which
> means to call someone the wrong gender. Other examples “innuendo”,
> “intimidation”, “retaliation”. For all of these words, one can write a
> dictionary entry, one can define them. Those words are in normal
> dictionaries. These are useful words with specific meanings. We could write
> a dictionary for these words, if that would help. It is good to have these
> technical words. If we do not include those specific words, then (to keep
> the same meaning) we will have to have very long sentences, or use simplier
> words that don't mean the same thing. In English this type of specialist
> langauge is called “jargon” (which also has negative meanings).
>
> This is not just unique to non-native English speakers. Different dialects
> of English have different meanings. I'm a native speaker of Hiberno
> English, and had some of the words from the mod subcttee (et al.) mean
> different things, like “town hall”, ”biweekly”, or “through [time period]”.
>
> (ii) Metaphors, and idioms, are different. e.g. “X is the lifeblood of Y”.
> These can be hard to non-native speakers to understand. I often use
> metaphors & idioms. I am trying to do that less, in order to be understood
> better. Unfortunately, the best way to do this, is to write very simple
> sentences. One must write like a robot. The language that comes out, sounds
> cold, and unfriendly, and distant. This can be hard for native speakers,
> because one wants to sound friendly, and nice, and happy. But it can be
> good to write clearly.
>
>
> On Tue, 24 Aug 2021 23:34 +02:00, Darafei Praliaskouski via talk <
> talk at openstreetmap.org> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I welcome the intent of guidelines.
> >
> > As non-native speaker, I see some words not being part of my active
> vocabulary:
> >
> >  - see facial expression, hear tone or see other cues - the word "cue"
> >  - are part of the lifeblood of a successful project - the word
> > "lifeblood"
> >  - including deliberate intimidation or harassment - the word
> > "intimidation"
> >  - such as retaliation, personal insults, dead-naming, or innuendo. -
> > words "retaliation", "innuendo". "dead-naming" I know but can foresee
> > that it's not very widely known around my area.
> >
> > It will help others if the grammar structure of text is simplified.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 9:00 PM Steve Friedl <steve at unixwiz.net> wrote:
> > > The LCCWG moderation subcommittee is holding two online public
> meetings
> > > about the revisions to the current Etiquette Guidelines, which are now
> open
> > > for public comment.
> > >
> > > The draft guidelines are found here, with comments open to Sept 8:
> > >
> > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Etiquette/Etiquette_Guidelines
> > >
> > > Both online meetings will be held via Big Blue Button in this room:
> > >
> > > https://osmvideo.cloud68.co/user/mag-w4d-2qs-pie
> > >
> > > with two timeslots to accommodate a global audience.
> > >
> > > Meeting #1: Thursday September 2; 1400 UTC
> > >
> > >
> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20210902T14&ah=1
> > >
> > >   7 AM Pacific Time (US)
> > >  10 AM Eastern Time (US)
> > >   2 PM UTC
> > >   4 PM Central European Time
> > >
> > > Meeting #2: Friday September 3; 0600 UTC
> > >
> > >
> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20210903T06&ah=1
> > >
> > >  11 PM Pacific Time (US; evening of Sept 2)
> > >   2 AM Eastern Time (US)
> > >   6 AM UTC
> > >   8 AM Central European Time
> > >
> > > We welcome participation from the entire OSM community.
> > >
> > > Steve -- for the subcommittee
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Steve Friedl // Software & Network Security Consultant // 714-345-4571
> > > steve at unixwiz.net // Southern California USA // I speak for me only
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > talk at openstreetmap.org
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> >
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