[Osmf-talk] Google Open Buildings now licensed ODbL

Sat Dec 4 22:44:49 UTC 2021

In recent years I have dealt intensively with the situation of
building outlines in OpenStreetMap, and building outlines calculated
by AI in official maps. OpenStreetMap today are mostly the same aerial
images that Google has to purchase for a fee. Why don't we create
AI-determined outlines ourselves from the aerial photographs made
available to us. The AI technology required for this should have been
directly available to OpenStreetMap for a long time.

A future OpenStreetMap would primarily consist of cyclically imported
official OGD data and building outlines calculated from aerial
photographs.
We OpenStreetMap Mapper would close the time gap between official
publications and thus provide official services with valuable local
information on errors in their geodata.

Am Sa., 4. Dez. 2021 um 11:24 Uhr schrieb Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch>:
>
>
> Am 04.12.2021 um 04:18 schrieb Martin Machyna:
>
> If we go with CC-BY 4.0 + waiver, would that solve the problem?
>
> Possibly. Note that it doesn't solve the quality issues with the data and other aspects that should be considered. I haven't seen anything that indicates that the discussion around this data has progressed to a point at which it simply can be shoved in the face of contributors without the risk of things going really wrong.
>
>
>
> As a side note, I don't think it is healthy for us to think about somebody as a competitor. We are here to create/gather geospatial data and provide it for free to everybody, not to compete with someone. As far as I know Google is not a data provider, but rather a provider of map services so if it is competing with someone it is more Mapbox, Geofabrik,... etc. Google has decided to help us and recently also started using our data, I think we should embrace it as a recognition of our hard work and use any help there is to fulfill our mission.
>
> While google does not provide data without any services attached it does clearly provide replacement products and competes with the OSM ecosystem as a whole. It would be naive to not recognize that. That doesn't mean we can't accept support and data from them, but it shouldn't be in a form that restricts our freedom going forward over what we have agreed upon as a core property of the project (in this case that we provide our data on open terms).
>
> During the licence change we had to negotiate with, in some cases unhappy, third parties in exactly that situation (Nearmap comes to mind, but there were others). Regardless of how amicable a relationship was at one point in time, we need to recognize that things change and flexibility that was there at one time might go away.
>
> Simon
>
> PS: A third party GTFS data source that google uses, utilize OSM data and google is displaying the attribution that that data source requires. That is a far cry from "google started using our data" as a deliberate decision on behalf of google. It was note worthy more as an amusing quirk than anything else.
>
> PPS: the timing of the announcement in the OSMFs silly season is not lost on me.
>
>
>
> Martin
>
> On Fri, Dec 3, 2021 at 7:41 PM Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Am 17.09.2021 um 17:02 schrieb Mikel Maron:
>> > Agreed this shouldn't be used for bulk import. Human reviewed conflation and editing signal I think will be useful in some regions.
>>
>> It seems as if this is now available via RapiD and it is likely going to
>> be added come what may.
>>
>> I know nobody asked for my opinion, but I don't consider it a
>> particularly good idea that somebody will need to go back to google and
>> ask for their permission to retain the data if OSM ever decides it wants
>> to change its licence. While it is true that there have been, and
>> continue to be, other cases in which ODbL licensed data has been
>> imported (not that I consider that a particularly good idea in those
>> cases either), it hasn't been from a de facto competitor that is known
>> to change its policies at the drop of a hat.
>>
>> Simon
>>
>>
>> >
>> > * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Friday, September 17, 2021, 09:54:53 AM EDT, <dfjkman at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > As an example as to why it is not a good idea to use this data for a bulk import have a look at this link of one small part of Lusaka ( https://sites.research.google/open-buildings/?lat=-15.390364893412949&lng=28.321204487879392&zoom=17#explore), select the hybrid option to see how out it is. This shopping centre is several years old.
>> >
>> > Dave
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Mikel Maron <mikel.maron at gmail.com>
>> > Sent: 17 September 2021 15:20
>> > To: osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org
>> > Subject: Re: [Osmf-talk] Google Open Buildings now licensed ODbL
>> >
>> > As agreed with Google, I've added Google Buildings to the list of Contributors, https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#Multiple_African_countries
>> >
>> > * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thursday, September 16, 2021, 12:29:52 PM EDT, Mikel Maron <mikel.maron at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > https://sites.research.google/open-buildings/#faq
>> >
>> > OSM can now use this data set. Very interesting change to see G support OSM directly.
>> >
>> > Noting the prior discussion on quality issues on this list, expect to see this more useful in peri-urban and rural areas. The FAQ notes the importance of human review and when possible local knowledge
>> >
>> > -Mikel
>> >
>> > * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
>> >
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>> >
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