[Osmf-talk] Tagging Conflict of Interest
David Reik
davidreik at comcast.net
Thu Feb 11 14:55:29 UTC 2021
Dear Martin Machyna: I know that there are those who are involved with OSM who are interested in the issue of conflict of interest. If you have your own rendering of OSM that uses a particular style of tagging different from the style of tagging that is utilized byhttp://www.openstreetmap.org, and you systematically change tagging to facilitate rendering on your own platform and to interfere with rendering onhttp://www.openstreetmap.org, I think you are guilty of a conflict of interest. I think this is what is happening with your systematic elimination of blaze (trail waymark) information from path way names. David Reik, Farmington, CT
> On 02/10/2021 1:43 PM Martin Machyna <machyna at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> it is unclear to me what information you want to add. If it is the boundary from the DEEP gis hub, then ask DEEP directly if it can be used in OSM. If there are new parts of the state park that you know then you can add them yourself. If you are thinking of parel ownership, without it being part of a state park or a protected area, then I am afraid that is out the scope of OSM (at least that is what a part of the US OSM community thinks).
>
> On the trail marking issue, I feel your pain, but if you really insist on using RWGPS app then the correct way to do this is to contact the app developers and ask them to add support for hiking relations ( https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:route%3Dhiking). (btw If you do so, can you also tell them to respect access=private tag as that is an increasing problem to land owners that then want to delete these paths from OSM.) Or switch to an app that already has the support such as OsmAnd.
>
> If it could be any help to you, I made myself a Topo hiking map for Garmin devices that shows these trails in color (see attached picture). You can download the file from here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_0RmPHS8x3Fwqtdt9wh9WYhPF4LE6Xpj/view?usp=sharing
>
> Best,
> Martin
> [image.png]
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 12:35 PM Thomas Ebersold < bikehikekayak123 at sbcglobal.net mailto:bikehikekayak123 at sbcglobal.net > wrote:
>
> > >
> > Thanks for the info. The property in Woodbridge is mostly definitely part of the park. I hiked it in 2020.
> >
> > Martin, how would someone add information then? The back story to this is that the state bought new land at the north end of the park. A Scout is interested in building a trail on that land, and because there is so much private property up there as well, it would be very helpful to have the OSM data be up to date. Ride with GPS, which I used to trace a possible route, uses OSM as it background data.
> >
> > For the same reason, it is frustrating to me when I am tracing potential hikes on existing trails when the trail colors and names are not included. While the Czech map is flashy looking, it is not used by RWGPS and confusingly uses lines to mark trails that are not always the actual blaze color. While the trail colors may be under relations, that's not an option when working through RWGPS.
> >
> > Tom Ebersold
> > Milford, CT
> >
> > On Wednesday, February 10, 2021, 11:38:50 AM EST, Martin Machyna < machyna at gmail.com mailto:machyna at gmail.com > wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi David,
> >
> > I couldn't completely follow the conversation, but if it is about the parcel ownership then that shouldn't be a reason to exclude the part from the Park relation. Protected parks can have other owners even private, but important is that all together form one unit.
> > On the ( https://portal.ct.gov/-/media/DEEP/stateparks/maps/WestRockParkmappdf.pdf) map all appears as one state park and West Rock does not show up on NEw Haven Parks and Rec page.
> >
> > In state data of DEEP property it all appears together: https://ct-deep-gis-open-data-website-ctdeep.hub.arcgis.com/datasets/deep-property-3?geometry=-73.066%2C41.332%2C-72.829%2C41.377
> >
> > PS. As a reminder, don't copy data from other maps or other sources into OSM without a permission. Also CT data even though publicly available are still often under CCBY4.0 licence, which is incompatible with OSM's ODbL license (Federal sources are fine as they are under public license by default). Otherwise that is an intellectual property theft.
> >
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/ODbL_Compatibility
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FAQ#Why_don.27t_you_just_use_Google_Maps.2Fwhoever_for_your_data.3F
> >
> > Best,
> > Martin
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 9:11 AM David Reik < davidreik at comcast.net mailto:davidreik at comcast.net > wrote:
> >
> > > > > Dear Tom Ebersold:
> > > Yes, I've seen before where GIS maps are clearly wrong, although, generally, they seem to be more accurate than other sources of boundary information. Maybe I should use https://portal.ct.gov/-/media/DEEP/stateparks/maps/WestRockParkmappdf.pdf as my source for West Rock Ridge State Park boundary information, although it seems to be a bit schematic. Note that https://portal.ct.gov/-/media/DEEP/stateparks/maps/WestRockParkmappdf.pdf has a little section of land on the west side of Konolds Pond in Woodbridge as being part of West Rock Ridge State Park. If I zoom in enough, I see that http://cteco.uconn.edu/maps/town/DEPProp/DEEPProp_Hamden.pdf also has the Konolds Pond tract as part of West Rock Ridge State Park. I'll send this also to Martin Machyna who has expressed an interest in my continuing attempts to put in more accurate boundaries for West Rock Ridge State Park. The .pdf maps don't even show four acres of City of New Haven land on the other side of Wintergreen Avenue from the nature center. David Reik, Farmington, CT
> > >
> > > > > > > On 02/09/2021 8:31 PM Thomas Ebersold < bikehikekayak123 at sbcglobal.net mailto:bikehikekayak123 at sbcglobal.net > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Here’s your confirmation of the West Rock name at the north end of the park:
> > > > http://cteco.uconn.edu/maps/town/DEPProp/DEEPProp_Hamden.pdf
> > > >
> > > > This map does imply the state owns the west side parking lot.
> > > >
> > > > People do park along the jersey barrier. I saw three cars there on Saturday.
> > > >
> > > > I read through my two copies of New Haven Outdoors: A Guide to the City’s Parks.
> > > >
> > > > For the other parking lot, you could probably safely call it West Rock Park, it’s original name. I will confirm with the New Haven ranger.
> > > >
> > > > For the part in orange, that is a MAJOR goof in the GIS maps. That is ALL West Rock Ridge State Park, except for the parking lot area. If you click on the info part, you get the true size, which is 4 acres.
> > > >
> > > > https://gis.vgsi.com/newhavenct/Parcel.aspx?pid=24875
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 874th Session, January 26, 1965
> > > >
> > > > Present: President Andrew Salperto, Commissioners A. Edward Constantine, John H. Davidson, Michael DePalma, Joseph Egan, Philip H. English, Jay Quinn, William Wren, Director James E. Coogan, and from the staff: Joseph Lobasz, Carl Nastri, Earl Lyon, Irving Pierson, Anthony Cosenza, and Lawrence D. Porter.
> > > >
> > > > Director Nastri:
> > > >
> > > > The Nature Center, he continued, is preparing for the increase in usage that comes with Spring and the good weather months. He anticipated that the new parking lot would be completed before the Summer started.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Minutes, 1011th Session, June 21, 1978
> > > >
> > > > Present: President Charles Parker, John Fabrizio, Edward Fortes, George Longyear, Margaret Pastore, John Wilhelm, Carl Nastri, Sylvia Kahlil, and William Polino.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > West Rock Ridge State Park – Boundaries
> > > >
> > > > Mr. Nastri displayed a map sent by the City Plan Department which showed the proposed boundaries of the West Rock property to be transferred to the State of Connecticut for West Rock Ridge State Park. Mr. Nastri indicated the areas to be retained by the city. They are: West Rock Nature Center and parking lot, site of the proposed Barnyard Nature Center, Hilltop playground, Amrhyn Field/Blake-Stone playground, Caretaker’s residence and bowling green on Springside Avenue.
> > > >
> > > > Commissioner Pastore moved to approve the boundary lines subject to a survey by the State of Connecticut and preparation of proper deed documents. This motion was seconded and approved.
> > > >
> > > > This information will be submitted to the Board of Aldermen for action.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Feb 9, 2021, at 7:36 PM, David Reik < davidreik at comcast.net mailto:davidreik at comcast.net > wrote:
> > > > > Dear Tom Ebersold:
> > > > >
> > > > > Is the northeastern parking lot active? It appears not.
> > > > >
> > > > > Should the southwestern parking lot be labelled "West Rock Nature Center Parking"?
> > > > >
> > > > > What should the tract of land be called that is owned by the city of New Haven that the southwestern parking lot is about one one-hundredth of? I'll put in a screenshot showing the tract of land that I am referring to. I have tentatively named the tract "West Rock Ridge New Haven Park." David Reik
> > > > > <2021-2-9d.JPG>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On 02/09/2021 11:52 AM Thomas Ebersold < bikehikekayak123 at sbcglobal.net mailto:bikehikekayak123 at sbcglobal.net > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Oh, grasshopper, rest at the feet of the wise one, after your long pilgrimage seeking knowledge and enlightenment. The attached pictures should clear up the mystery.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Both are technically West Rock Nature Center parking areas. Eventually I can dig through the minutes to find when they were constructed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The P on the ridge is the antenna. The P at the base of Lake Wintergreen at the sharp turn is a small farm.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > See attached for clarity from the Hamden GIS maps.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Town of Hamden GIS - ArcGIS Server Parcel Application https://hamden.mapxpress.net/ags_map/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Town of Hamden GIS - ArcGIS Server Parcel Application
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tuesday, February 9, 2021, 10:11:28 AM EST, David Reik < davidreik at comcast.net mailto:davidreik at comcast.net > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think you may be writing A when you mean B, but I am not sure. There are two parking lots near the entrance to West Rock Nature Center, one on the northeast side of Wintergreen Avenue, one on the southwest side of Wintergreen Avenue. The West Rock Nature Center map shows the lot on the northeast side as being an active parking area, although there are jersey barricades in front of the lot on Google Streetview. I don't know what lot you wanted me to label "West Nature Center Parking."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'll put in a screenshot showing who owns land in the area according to SCRCOG. NH is New Haven, P is Private. I don't know what you call the area of land on the west side of Wintergreen Avenue that I would have thought of as West Rock Ridge State Park but that is owned by the city of New Haven. David Reik
> > > > > > <2021-2-9a.JPG>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On 02/08/2021 8:43 PM Thomas Ebersold < bikehikekayak123 at sbcglobal.net mailto:bikehikekayak123 at sbcglobal.net > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I was in a hurry, but let me explain further.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The area marked with the A is a parking lot owned and operated by the city of New Haven. It was built to provide extra parking for the West Rock Nature Center. When the city handed over most of West Rock Park to the state, it kept the nature center, the ballfield area, the Common Ground HS site, the old bowling green, and that parking lot.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I drove by it tonight after slaying many vines nearby.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They have a chain (not a gate as I previously wrote) across the parking lot because if they leave it open, people dump stuff there. That's the same reason why the nature center parking lot is blocked off by jersey barriers.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They don't show that lot on the nature center map.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://www.newhavenct.gov/civicax/filebank/blobdload.aspx?blobid=25224
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://gis.vgsi.com/newhavenct/Parcel.aspx?pid=24875
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I bought this book on eBay and read it cover to cover.
> > > > > > > Backyard Nature Man, Book Two: My Middle Years and the 40-acre West Rock Nature Recreation Center by Cosenza, Anthony V - 1993 https://www.biblio.com/book/backyard-nature-book-two-my-middle/d/898019760
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Backyard Nature Man, Book Two: My Middle Years and the 40-acre West Roc...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Find Backyard Nature Man, Book Two: My Middle Years and the 40-acre West Rock Nature Recreation Center by Cose...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Tom
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Monday, February 8, 2021, 8:25:29 PM EST, David Reik < davidreik at comcast.net mailto:davidreik at comcast.net > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This don't make no-type sense. You must have been in a hurry. David Reik
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 02/08/2021 8:44 AM Thomas Ebersold < bikehikekayak123 at sbcglobal.net mailto:bikehikekayak123 at sbcglobal.net > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A is functioning when New Haven choses to open the gate. The name would best be the West Rock Nature Center.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It is not a state park.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Tom
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 8, 2021, at 8:35 AM, David Reik < davidreik at comcast.net mailto:davidreik at comcast.net > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Do I have this right?: A is no longer a functioning parking area of any kind. B is a parking area that has a gate at its junction with Wintergreen Avenue and that is for West Rock Nature Center, even though there is parking for West Rock Nature Center closer to the West Rock Nature Center buildings.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Maybe mashin does something, to see what I've done, that is similar to what you do to see what he has done. I try no to think about him.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What do we call the section of what I would have called West Rock Ridge State Park that is owned by the city of New Haven? I don't think I can call this land a state park if it's not owned by the state.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > David Reik
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 02/07/2021 9:28 PM Thomas Ebersold < bikehikekayak123 at sbcglobal.net mailto:bikehikekayak123 at sbcglobal.net > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > A is the original parking lot at the base of the entrance to the nature center. B is the parking lot across the street that is larger and has a gate because if they don’t gate it, then people dump trash in it.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Not on OSM yet. Does Mashin get alerts when you make changes?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > His latest change is in Europe.
> > > > > > > > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/98867804#map=13/49.4059/21.1513&layers=O
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Working on dams in Conn.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Berlin, CT update
> > > > > > > > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/98834836#map=15/41.5752/-72.8239&layers=O
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Durham
> > > > > > > > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/98834197
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 7, 2021, at 9:15 PM, David Reik < davidreik at comcast.net mailto:davidreik at comcast.net > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Not done yet, but I've made more accurate the northern West Rock Ridge State Park boundaries (I hope). It might take a day or two to show up onhttp://www.openstreetmap.org/ .
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Going towards the southern end of West Rock Ridge State Park, I'm not sure what you mean by "Can you label the New Haven property by the main entrance that is the West Rock Nature Center parking?" I see the City of New Haven owns a big hunk of land in the middle of West Rock Ridge State Park across from the Nature Center. I'll put in a screenshot. I'm not sure what is at the A and the B. David Reik
> > > > > > > > > > > <2021-2-7eb.JPG>
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 02/07/2021 9:43 AM Thomas Ebersold < bikehikekayak123 at sbcglobal.net mailto:bikehikekayak123 at sbcglobal.net > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Cartographer Reik:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > When I was doing my tracing, I did notice the various parcels labeled as state property on standard view or WRRSP on cycle view on OSM. There are more parcels visible under the standard view, plus the historical society property.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Can you add the others and label it as WRRSP on all of them?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I do see the boundaries by the Field of Dreams (but only on the standard view) and also by Benham Street on both views.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Can you label the New Haven property by the main entrance that is the West Rock Nature Center parking?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Conservation area details:
> > > > > > > > > > > > https://westrockpark.wordpress.com/history/
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.cga.ct.gov/2003/fc/2003HB-05793-R000465-FC.htm
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > If you have time on your hands, you could add the state properties in Woodbridge by Konolds Pond and the upslope property owned by the city of New Haven. Using Bradley Road as a street will get you close.
> > > > > > > > > > > > https://woodbridge.mapxpress.net/ags_map/
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your help.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Then Mashin will copy it and put it on his map:
> > > > > > > > > > > > https://en.mapy.cz/turisticka?x=-72.9370927&y=41.4141114&z=15&source=osm&id=1049346622
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 7, 2021, at 8:30 AM, David Reik < davidreik at comcast.net mailto:davidreik at comcast.net > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dera Tom Ebersold: I wonder if you noticed, onhttp://www.openstreetmap.org, that I had put many of the tracts on your hand-annotated map onto OSM. Do all the properties you have marked "DEEP" qualify as being in West Rock Ridge State Park? Yesterday, I tried to put on OSM the boundaries of the tract of land owned by the Town of Hamden that's near the Field of Dreams. David Reik
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/attachments/20210211/2d4e73d5/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image.png
Type: image/png
Size: 87832 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/attachments/20210211/2d4e73d5/attachment.png>
More information about the osmf-talk
mailing list