[Osmf-talk] Tagging standards

[steveaOSM]

What seems likely for social, linguistic, logistical and practical reasons and what is likely the best possible outcome is that OSM continues a status quo here.  "Open tagging" can't ever really be abolished, it is too much an integral part of what OSM is and how it grows and evolves.  And as Chris points out:  not only humans learn, but software can (and does, to fledgling degrees), too.  And software which doesn't learn (most of it, although artificial intelligence techniques and machine learning mechanisms are being built into software more and more often) becomes obsolete, as it always does.  Well, unless it is super-massively maintained, and at great expense, some software is.  But eventually, newer software paradigms make even the most highly-maintained systems bloated and yesteryear's technology, and they get replaced.

Concomitant with this (apparent) status quo must be the sort of open dialog (as here) which points out this fundamental push-pull between "free for all" and "should or must have some predictability."  For it is only with that understanding (of both, and the tension between them), along with smart people who support, uphold and extend this history and ideals of "both" will any given problem be able to craft a solution.  I doubt there is (today) a problem regarding tagging — and OSM does have very open "free for all" tagging — that can't be solved, and withOUT resorting to demanding that we implement "tagging standards" (which would crush "open tagging").  Sure, you might need to "special case" things to a ridiculous degree, but that can always be done, even when tedious, difficult, and a lot of work.

The "solutions" which "land in the middle for today," like Proposals, Voting et al, are real-world solutions to problems, but they will always eventually inherently fall flat, being useful only for a limited life-span.  This isn't to say they aren't useful — they are.  I have both enthusiastically supported and vehemently shouted down many of them. But no matter how well-crafted (and many truly are), some real-world situation, ontology or scheme will someday render them obsolete.  They will have lived through their lifespan, and will be, must be discarded for something better.  So, too often, when I see genuinely worthy attempts for "tagging standards" (by John, for example, as OP on this topic), I exhale a long sigh, realize that yet again someone believes we can have a "one and done" solution, and try to keep a screed like this terse.  It isn't that such beliefs aren't a worthy goal, as they are, it is that we have "written 'freedom' into our DNA" (made 'open tagging' fundamental to OSM), and there isn't any "shackling" of that, once done.  There are good attempts to build things that last longer than "briefly," and this strengthens both our community and our map's data.  So, let's keep doing those, as they work.  But only for a short- or hopefully medium-term, until the world changes.  And then, our map (and its tags), being a reflection of that world, must change with it.  I have seen this cycle play out many times.

John, nothing personal, you are a great contributor to this project.  But we'll never get "tagging standards" in a workable, unanimous, or even consensus-based way, given the messy reality of "open tagging" we already have.  (The world is damn messy, our tagging is kind of messy, that's simply reality).  There will be "middle compromises" which help, so yes, good, let's keep those up now and into our future.  But let's also realize that with our freedom of "any tag you like" comes a cost:  that of the unexpected (tag), and "you simply must deal with that."  No tagging scheme or ontology we might craft will ever "fix" that.  We'll get better, as we do, but there is no crystal-ball-gazing way to fully predict the unexpected changes the future will bring.  And for that, we have yet newer tags.

The keys are realizing this, continuing to dialog about this and have people who understand this as we craft tags and tagging going forward.  The best scenario is if all of this becomes part of our culture.  I think we can do this.