[OSRM-talk] node as waypoint for polygons

J├╝rgen Barthel osrm at checkin.com
Tue Oct 25 20:14:52 UTC 2016


Hello OSRM,

I do believe there is need for a "drive node" for a multitude of cases 
related to OSRM, which I doubt OSM'ers takes into focus.

Example: Using airports or municipalities as waypoints in a navigation, 
shows two problems.

Problem 1: Airport "nodes" are usually somewhere on the runway. Very 
frequently that results in a navigation for an airport service road 
opposite the terminal. We have identified the street access nodes for 
all airports in Europe and currently add Russia.
Problem 2: On administrative boundaries I was /very/ surprised to find 
thousands and thousands in "civilized Europe" without an "admin center". 
Or "admin center" being nothing but set as a "centroid" in the middle of 
nowhere. Using those for drive time calculations we had up to 30 minutes 
differences i.e. in the Alps. Within a municipality (relatively small 
town, admin level 8).

We have manually identified and keep identifying the respective 
waypoints we use for OSRM, about 100/hour, using OSM with open sat 
tiles. Germany, Austria, Switzerland (example!!!) we talk about +150 
hours work time for ~15 thousand waypoints.
Now I thought about providing the improved data to OSM. 
https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/52590/bulk-update-admin-center
I also addressed before the issue of "nearest suitable road segment" 
(see 17Aug16) also loosely related to this, where issues like "national 
parks" popped up. Shopping centers jump to mind, "car free city 
centers", etc, pp.

In review, I understand that this is not a topic to the OSM people. This 
is an issue for route planning people. Some implications must be "sorted 
out".

Question 1: Admin Center or maybe a new "Node ... as routing waypoint" 
that we could add to polygons, such as airports, parks, shopping 
centers, admin boundaries, etc. etc.
I looked for Frankfurt Airport and got 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=Frankfurt%20Airport#map=13/50.0230/8.5446 
leading to http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5813621 (without any node).
I looked for Zurich Airport and got 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=Zurich%20Airport#map=14/47.4583/8.5482 
leading to node http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/26608880
Looking at Zurich http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1682248, there 
is no admin center but "Node Zurich (240025182) as label". Problem is, a 
"label" does not help. I believe we would need a "Node Zurich (12345678) 
as waypoint". Wrong?

Question 2: If you look at national parks or other "car free" places, 
they may have multiple waypoints...? 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1453306

Issue 3 (no question): A frequent and quick retort is "copyright". For 
gawd's sake, we research the waypoints on OSM, what's the deal. If any, 
WE have the copyright. But our idea is to return our research under open 
source into OSM as a return for all the work OSM (and OSRM) keeps saving 
us. There's more information we research and adjust, I'm not afraid 
someone quickly copies our business model ;-)

Question 4: TIME. For us, the issue is, we cannot justify manual 
addition of those nodes to OSM. We can NOT invest a lot of time. We can 
offer the data. I have no idea about how to add such a "node as 
waypoint" or how to add those waypoints to the thousands of places we 
have on file. Where NO admin center exists or the where the admin center 
is causing issues with OSRM drive time calculations. I imagine it easy 
for someone knowledgeable but still it takes time to program even such 
routines (i.e. with basic checks such as not to override existing 
waypoints). Happy to help. And to provide the data.

Should there be someone who has time and interest to help us adding this 
large amount of data in a meaningful way into OSM for the sake of the 
open community (and OSRM)... Please contact me at your convenience.
It's ongoing, we have not yet done them all... And maybe others may 
contribute for other polygons...

I think the main question is: Does someone have an idea how to add a 
"node as waypoint" as a "standard" for any polygons into OSM???

Best regards!
Cheers - Juergen
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