[Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

David Earl david at frankieandshadow.com
Wed Jan 20 13:00:10 GMT 2010

I still think the most important criterion is what the owner of the 
establishment says it is, not on the subjective judgement of the surveyor.


On 20/01/2010 12:52, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> 2010/1/20 Peter Childs <pchilds at bcs.org <mailto:pchilds at bcs.org>>
>     In my book its easy.
>     Cafe - Place to buy and consume light snacks and NON-Alcoholic Drinks
>     (Tea, Coffee, Coke etc) on site. Usually Unlicensed.
> in many countries you will find alcohol in cafés as well. In a café I
> would before all expect a professional coffee-machine and someone able
> to use it properly. Then I would expect a certain style (chairs and
> tables), opened usually from morning (or noon) to the evening, sometimes
> nighttime, almost never till very late. "Snacks" I would usually replace
> with cake and cookies.
>     Pub - Place to buy and consume Alcoholic Drinks on site, (may also
>     retail Non-Alcoholic Drinks, Snacks and sometimes Food)
> might also retail alcoholic drinks (in Germany and Italy, they do all,
> still a German "Pub" will look different (style) from what the Germans
> (and not only) call an "Irish Pub", which is precisely corresponding to
> a "Pub" in the UK/Ireland. Most of the "irish pubs" offer a small
> selection of food and snacks, "german pubs" often don't offer food
> (unless they call themselfes "restaurant"). They (mostly, nearly all) do
> offer draught beer.
>     Bar - Place to buy Alcoholic Drinks within a large establishment,
>     maybe with a hotel, or holiday complex, may share its seating with
>     other vendors.
> Bars, cafés, restaurants and pubs can all be inside hotels and holiday
> complexes. You might also very often find a bar in pubs and cafés, usually
> 1. in northern europe there are mainly "night bars" (I leave "milk bars"
> out of this thread), i.e. mostly frequented at night, they will usually
> have a professional bartender that mixes all kind of cocktails and
> longdrinks, probably also have small concerts, sometimes are self
> service. The seating will be bar stools at the counter and maybe lounge
> tables and sofas for relaxing. Ususally no food (or just snacks).
> Sometimes the offer draught beer, sometimes (probably more often) they
> don't.
> 2. in southern europe the bar concept is different and goes from
> breakfast, lunch to "pre-dinner". They serve all kind of drinks (also
> alcoholic), and often offer a small selection of dishes for lunch. In
> Italy many of them also sell cigarettes. The main use is still serving
> coffee. They change their use during the day: from (northern europe)
> café in the morning, to lunch-time-place at noon (kind of cheap pasta
> restaurant / fast-food like sandwiches) to a place to get an aperitiv
> before dinner. This kind of bar is found in Italy, Spain, southern
> France, Portugal, ...). They will (almost all) have a professional
> coffee machine.
> Still these places vary from country/culture to culture. IMHO we should
> continue the way we are going. E.g. I would recommend to tag an Italian
> bar with amenity=bar but expect something different if I navigate to a
> Bar in Rome than I would if I went to a Bar in Berlin. Let the mapuser
> interpret the available information. All Italian Bars call themselves
> "bar". For an Italian (casual) mapper it will be confusing to tag a bar
> with "café" (and still "café" doesn't describe the place well, as an
> Italian Bar is not a "Viennese Café").
> Cheers,
> Martin
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