[Tagging] Green areas that are not parks (revisited)

["Petr Morávek [Xificurk]"]

M∡rtin Koppenhoefer napsal(a):
> 2010/5/14 "Petr Morávek [Xificurk]" <xificurk at gmail.com>:
>> That's the part of copied text from wikipedia, that really significantly
>> changed the meaning of leisure=garden page on OSM wiki. Take a look at
>> the history, only few weeks ago the content said something completely
>> different (although it was marked as a stub).
> 
> 
> OK, I see what you mean (I was confused anyway because I remembered
> also a different content ;-) ). Still the old version is IMHO not
> useful either. On one hand it is an identical meaning to park. On the
> other "decorative" and "structured" are highly subjective terms when
> it comes to gardens. Are you aware of the two main lines of European
> garden history?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_garden
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_garden
> 
> Reading your post I get the feeling that you think mainly about garden
> as a French Garden. Still I'm missing the difference from
> "leisure=garden" and "leisure=park", that's why I think it's not a bad
> idea to change the meaning of leisure=garden also officially in OSM.

I'm glad we're "on the same page" now ;-) I know the difference between
the English and French style of gardening, but still in both cases I
would say that the main feature is displaying the plants. The English
garden could be pretty close to the park, but imho park is mainly
grassy, open area (in the sense of not covered by dense vegetation).

>> Yes, a lot of those areas are here in Czech Republic, that's why I
>> brought this up, because we were discussing it in talk-cz and did not
>> came to any definite conclusion - some think this is an inappropriate
>> usage (like I do), some think it's ok.
> 
> 
> you see. leisure=garden has for a long time not corresponded to the
> wiki definition, that's probably why someone changed it.

I'm still fuzzy on what is the wiki definition of garden.

>> Anyway, the page of leisure=garden was recently significantly changed
>> not only in the level of detail, but the meaning of this tag seems to be
>> shifted by this added content. In current state I can't see any clear
>> definition/description of what this tag should be used for.
> 
> 
> but before neither ;-)

I disagree, it was pretty simple to ask myself if the area is "Place
where flowers and other plants are grown in a decorative and structured
manner or for scientific purposes." - Botanical garden - yes, Japanese
garden belonging to a tea-house - yes, lawn behind a family house - no,
park is a bit grey area, but I wouldn't say that the area was covered
with plants in a decorative manner, etc.

>> As you said there is already a lot of leisure=garden areas, so the clear
>> criteria for its usage should be resolved rather sooner then later, when
>> the number grows even bigger. If anyone is able to give me a clear
>> description of the meaning of this tag (that would include cut grass
>> behind a family house), I'll shut up and use it according to that
>> definition.
> 
> 
> what if someone decides not to cut his grass? It would IMHO still be a garden.

That's the thing, I'm not convinced that a lawn should be tagged as
leisure=garden just because it's behind a fence around a family house.
But I'm slowly changing my mind and a good subtagging could be the right
way to go... the problem is that currently leisure=garden alone is used
for a lot of different areas and it's becoming useless without better
usage description on wiki.

Regards,
Petr Morávek

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