[Tagging] Proposed feature - age groups in schools

John F. Eldredge john at jfeldredge.com
Mon Nov 26 11:49:22 GMT 2012


Philip Barnes <phil at trigpoint.me.uk> wrote:

> I would avoid public, when tagging schools as it had very different
> meanings on each side of the Atlantic.
> 
> I would suggest state and private.
> 
>  Phil
> --
> 
> Sent from my Nokia N9
> 
> 
> 
> On 25/11/2012 23:58 Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:
> 
> Is this information something that should be placed in a geodatabase
> like OSM?
> 
> Or would this be better integrated into a separate school database.
> Maybe OpenSchoolDirectory? In that kind of database, you can include
> lots of information such as who is the principal, who operates the
> school, if the school is a public school or a private school, if it is
> sectarian or not, what the school's population is (and broken down per
> level), the number of classrooms for the school, etc.
> 
> Let OSM handle the geodata aspects of the schools (location, address,
> etc.) and leave it to other (hopefully open) databases to take care of
> those information.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 6:17 AM, Svavar Kjarrval <svavar at kjarrval.is>
> wrote:
> 
> Hi.
> 
> Like I stated in the proposal, it varies a lot between countries. I
> agree that there are different systems determining when children get
> into schools and here in Iceland it's defined as a year group.
> However, some countries have cut off dates which don't comply with the
> almanac year so it's not always Jan 1st to Dec 31st. That could be
> defined in another tag to make the information more granular. Without
> such a tag, one can at least know that the school educates children
> who become X old that year.
> 
> Regarding cases where the prefixed parts kind of answer the question,
> that's not always the case. Here in Iceland, we're lucky that the
> Ministry of Education keeps a list of all elementary schools (they're
> 175) and on said list there's only a handful of them which have any
> indication that they're elementary schools. This will most likely
> apply in other countries as well. Also, if such a data processing
> would cover the planet, it would be very time-consuming to derive such
> information in all the languages by hand, so said person would only
> want to cover areas with school names in a language he/she knows and
> if he/she has time to research the school system in each area to make
> such deductions. With this tag, the work is already done.
> 
> Example case:
> When my neighbourhood was under construction, the elementary school
> there only served students for the first four years (of the mandatory
> 10) in the year 2005. In the year 2006 it increased to the first 7
> years, in 2008 the first 9 years and finally included the 10th year in
> 2009. Even if the name had an indication that it was an elementary
> school, any deductions made from the age/year groups from reading the
> name would've been wrong. Also, that same elementary is also a
> kindergarten which makes it a bit harder to define from the name
> alone. So an age group, in that case, wouldn't have been such a bad
> idea. If OSM had progressed in 2005 as it has now, it would've been
> useful for many purposes to know that it didn't serve all 10 years of
> elementary school teaching.
> 
> After this proposal has been voted on, I intend to introduce a
> proposal to define school areas. Age groups can play a huge role,
> especially in the example case above, where children in certain school
> years were sent to a school in another neighbourhood. So the same
> neighbourhood was in the area of two schools, each educating children
> of different school years. Without this tag in the example case above,
> well, we'd be boned.
> 
> If anybody skips a year or repeats one, that's of course an exception
> this tag can't remedy.
> 
> I agree about the factoid you mentioned shouldn't be in the wiki page
> for the tag, should it be accepted. These were just examples of uses
> so you'd get the gist of what the data could be used for. It was not
> intended as ultimate or the best examples of use. I'll find a more
> general case before requesting a vote on the proposal.
> 
> - Svavar
> 
> 
> 
> On 25/11/12 21:07, Steve Bennett wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> With the exception of pre-schools, aren't most schools defined by the
> year group, rather than age? Around a here, a primary school is Prep
> to Grade 6, and high school is Year 7 to Year 12. The actual ranges of
> kids varies a bit - some skip years, some repeat. I can't see much use
> for coding an "age group".
> 
> To be honest, I'm not sure I even see the value in coding year groups
> - what does "year_group=7-12" tell you that "Blah Blah High School"
> doesn't? The use case of a parent choosing where to send their kids is
> such a rare one, and involves so much other research that I don't
> think having that factoid in OSM achieves much.
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Svavar Kjarrval <svavar at kjarrval.is>
> wrote:
> 
> Hi.
> 
> The RFC process has started for my proposal to tag the age groups
> schools offer education for. More information is on the wiki page.
> 
> The proposal is at
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/age_group .
> 
> With regards,
> Svavar Kjarrval
> 
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Of course, the term "state" will also likely be misunderstood by some American mappers, as we use "state" both as a term for governments in general (as you are using it here), and also as a term for the entity one level down from nation (the state of Tennessee, for example).  The latter usage is more common.
-- 
John F. Eldredge -- john at jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
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