[Tagging] Related: Antarctic territories

Eugene Alvin Villar seav80 at gmail.com
Mon Dec 23 19:33:02 UTC 2013

There's some related discussion on the Talk:Tag:boundary=adminstrative wiki

A suggestion is to replace the 'inner' and 'outer' relation roles (which is
trivial to determine) with roles that specify the claimed borders ('dejure'
or 'claimed') and the actual line-of-control borders ('defacto' or
'actual', or maybe even still use 'inner' and 'outer'). This way, using
only one relation, you can specify both the claimed territory and the
territory that is actually controlled.

On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Fernando Trebien <
fernando.trebien at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
> I'm not sure if I should post this question here. If not, please point
> me in a better direction.
> I was optimizing some boundaries in Antarctica and then realized some
> countries had included as part of their country borders their claimed
> territories in Antarctica, namely: Australia, Norway and Argentina.
> Now, the Antarctic Treaty
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_Treaty) does not state that
> these countries have actual jurisdiction nor sovereignty over these
> areas (it does not deny it also). Additionally, the wiki says that,
> for clarity, a country in OSM should be equivalent to an ISO-3166
> entity (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Admin_level#National).
> None of Antartica's claimed territories are ISO-3166 entities (so
> they're not countries and are probably part of other countries - so
> far so good), but Antartica is, so Antarctica is a country in OSM - a
> strange one whose subdivisions do not belong to itself (but that's ok
> in theory). Oddity aside, I wouldn't worry about adding Chile's and
> NZ's territories to their countries, but if I added UK's, then it
> naturally follows that we also would have to add all other British
> overseas territories to UK - but we can't, because most of them are
> ISO-3166 entities, therefore, countries.
> So how do we solve this conundrum fairly? Should we...
> - add the claimed territories to the respective countries, except UK?
> - add all claimed territories, but no UK overseas territories besides
> the Antarctic one?
> - override the ISO-3166 rule and add overseas territories to UK?
> - remove claimed territories from the borders of Australia, Norway and
> Argentina, and perhaps create relations for overseas territories of
> each of these countries, like they apparently do in France
> (http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2186658)?
> I think the last solution may be superior because:
> - AFAIK no treaty gives sovereignty/jurisdiction/special rights to any
> of the claiming countries over any of these claimed territories
> - less confusing (it always seems weird to create exceptions on
> established patterns), particularly because:
> --- I believe almost nobody thinks of those territories when thinking
> of the claiming countries; and
> --- I think a letter sent to any of these territories wouldn't
> normally be addressed to Norway, Argentina or Australia
> - consequently, it may help to avoid future edit wars
> It may, however, create problems to applications that assume that
> these areas are states/provinces/etc. of their respective countries.
> On the other hand, I believe that the impact would be minimal and that
> many other common things in OSM force programmers to create exceptions
> in their code more often.
> What do you think? Am I missing something fundamental?
> I know I'm meddling in other nations business, but I'm curious since I
> stumbled upon the problem.
> --
> Fernando Trebien
> +55 (51) 9962-5409
> "The speed of computer chips doubles every 18 months." (Moore's law)
> "The speed of software halves every 18 months." (Gates' law)
> _______________________________________________
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