[Tagging] Are addresses ... objects vs attributes

Peter Wendorff wendorff at uni-paderborn.de
Wed Jul 24 18:42:27 UTC 2013


Hi André,

I agree with you that this Keepright error message is not useful, but my
"solution" is different from yours:
I tend to think that KeepRight is wrong here. Something CAN be
natural=water and leisure=whatever in common - and why not?
Your example is perfectly valid, and others are as well.

natural=water, leisure=fishing (I think that was your example)
natural=water, leisure=swimming
natural=water|heath|grassland|..., leisure=nature_reserve
natural=water, leisure=wildlife_hide

and many more.

But it's not necessarily you who's wrong, it's KeepRight in this case.
Of course the OSM tagging scheme in some places has it's drawbacks, but
that's (technically) the case where more than one value would have to be
applied to the same key, e.g. amenity=cafe + amenity=restaurant, or
whatever else.
In this case it's an IMHO wrong interpretation by KeepRight.

regards
Peter

Am 24.07.2013 00:07, schrieb André Pirard:
> On 2013-07-21 14:06, Pieren wrote :
>> On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 11:04 PM, Friedrich Volkmann <bsd at volki.at> wrote:
>>> Adresses are attributes of physical objects, e.g. a parcel, a house, or a 
>>> part of a house. 
>> Parcels can be merged and deleted, houses can be replaced, 
>> shops/restaurants/POI's may change at any time but the addresses remain. It is 
>> more permanent as a simple 'attribute' than all the 'features' you mention.
> Anecdote and fundamental discussion...
> 
> When I built my house, I went to the town hall to get a number assigned.
> I expected a problem because the houses on each side were nr 1 & 3.
> - No problem, sir, everything was planned, you get nr 2 [normally on the other side]
> - ahem, there are 2 parcels between 1 and 3
> - No problem, sir, everything was planned, see (pulling plates), you get nr 2a
> - ahem, I built my house on the second parcel
> - No problem, sir, then (swapping plates) it's nr 2b for you
> So did 1I live at mystreet 2b.
> But only for a few years. The communes merged, street homonyms were renamed and...
> all houses renumbered thoughtfully.  I've lived at nr 5 since then.
> Only thing is, I almost lost a friend.  The guy living at nr 26 :-)
> 
> I hope you won't mind my feeling that my house is the object and the numbers the 
> attributes.
> 
> Your speaking of objects and attributes delights me.
> That's exactly the way I think of the different features in OSM.
> Unfortunately, in the OSM tag definitions, there is no mention of being an 
> object or an attribute.
> And in practice there can be much confusion.
> 
> An object is the physical thing.  It's unique.
> An attribute is the different forms, usage etc... of the object.  It can be 
> multiple.
> 
> We've already talked of how to tag a château
> historical=castle
> It is strange to seem to say that a castle is "/*a historica*/l", especially if 
> it's not historical.
> In my mind, it should be:
> building=yes
> castle=yes  (or =type IF AND ONLY IF any type is exclusive, e.g. =château 
> instead of...)
> château=yes
> hotel=yes  (because château can be used as hotels in addition to being château)
> historical=no (or yes or 1200?)
> 
> Same kind of problem here <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180545448>  
> with a sort of concrete basin, like a swimming pool, where fishes to be fished 
> are thrown
> This object is undoubtedly a piece of water:
> water=?
> But OSM seems to require that object to be called "/*a natural*/", although it's 
> not natural at all.
> Furthermore, I want to state that this water is made for leisure with a an 
> attribute "leisure=".
> And once again, Osmose clashes with saying that "/*a leisure*/" is a conflicting 
> /*object*/ once again.
>> Tag en conflit
>> Conflit entre les tags natural, leisure
>> way 180545448 rawedit josm
>> water = pond
>> natural = water
>> name = Pêcherie du Tultay
>> leisure = fishing
>> Erreur reportée le : 2013-07-23
> In my mind, that tagging should resemble this:
> water=basin
> natural=no
> phishing=yes
> leisure=yes  (industrial=no)
> pay=yes
> drinks=yes (to spare a separate amenity object)
> talking=no
> bicycle=carefully ;-)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> André.
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