[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - shop=bakery,confectionery

Murry McEntire murry.mcentire at gmail.com
Thu Jun 27 00:49:13 UTC 2013


I tried the split that made the most sense in the available common English
terms, so I'm not sure how this could be handled. I would vote against any
proposal for pastry_bakery or cake_bakery because I know they would not be
used correctly by English speakers. Neither is inclusive of all non-bread
bakery products. The British have no clear category for pastry shop and
would not think to even look for it. They have bakeries and cake shops in
their business directories and most the cake shops are double listed under
bakery. An American might put a shop that specialized in cakes in
cake_shop, but would put pastry, pie and other bakery goods shops in
bakery. Pastry_shop in America would fail to gather cake shops. The
American is going to search their business directory using bakery, then
maybe look for sub-types. Both the British and Americans might opt for
bakery instead of cake_bakery. even for cake shops. Even if aware of
another term, any shop that sells both bread and non-bread bakery goods
(that is the large majority of them in English-speaking nations) is going
to be tagged bakery - even if four fifths of the floor space is non-bread.
I try to pick tag names that a tagger and especially a user would be drawn
to without ever seeing the OSM wiki; for the English speaking nations this
seems to be bakery for any baked good. For those that do visit the wiki, I
would expect moderate use of the sub tags for goods type. It certainly
gives the local mappers something fun and tasty to survey for map entries.
:-)

How do you fight a basic definition in the language that says a bakery is a
shop that sells bread, cakes, pastries and pies? If you could go back to
the foundation of OSM and foresee your problem, bakery should never have
been created; bread_bakery and non_bread_bakery should have. But even with
these terms in existence, the British, American, Canadian, and Aussie
taggers would still have created and used the tag bakery to model what they
know. I suspect any split of bakery at the shop level is going to be voted
down strongly by the native English-speaking.

If the tags for product type are not sufficient for distinguishing between
the two types you mention, perhaps a regional use page is needed for those
countries, saying the English main feature page may only have bakery, but
we do it this way in Germany?

Murry


On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 3:00 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer <dieterdreist at gmail.com
> wrote:

>
>
>
> 2013/6/26 Murry McEntire <murry.mcentire at gmail.com>
>
>> The link to the (revised) proposal page:
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposal/Shop%3Dbakery,confectionery
>>
>
>
> Murry, I think that this content is valuable, as it defines very well what
> can be considered a bakery, and what are typical products in the anglo
> saxon region, but what I would like are at least 2 main tags to represent
> what for you is a "bakery", but for the German can be a "Bäckerei" or a
> "Konditorei", for the Italian a "forno" or a "pasticceria", for the French
> a "boulangerie" or a "pâtisserie", etc. This is considered two different
> kinds of (similar) profession/craft/shop, often they are combined, but then
> they usually call themselves both (boulangerie-pâtisserie,
> Bäckerei-Konditorei, ...).
>
> cheers,
> Martin
>
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