[Tagging] governmental / public_administrative landuse are not commercial

johnw johnw at mac.com
Tue Nov 18 06:00:35 UTC 2014

> On Nov 17, 2014, at 9:34 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer <dieterdreist at gmail.com> wrote:
> 2014-11-14 5:03 GMT+01:00 johnw <johnw at mac.com <mailto:johnw at mac.com>>:
> A couple more landuse cases were added. I’m going to ask now if it is a good idea to specifically exclude Police/fire/safety and give them their own landuse(s). 
> this can be very different from one country to another. E.g. in Italy there are lots of different kind of police forces, some are military, others aren't, so don't take for granted that all kind of police should get the same landuse.

Well, I was trying to think of something generic that could be flexible to adapt to different conditions, as I’m aware there are many different kind of police forces, and different levels of them - AKA local, county, Regional, national, and Civil and Military - but all of them are geared towards “policing” the citizens - not fighting wars, defending land form invaders, etc.

> Also fire departments will not necessarily have the same landuse, dependent on how we will classify them, e.g. in Germany there are volunteering and professional fire fighters.

not sure how what affects the landuse of the stations. In California there are similar Volunteer stations, or ones manned only during fire season (they are in the countryside). I have heard that some small towns have volunteer-only  fire services. But that shouldn’t affect the marking of the landuse as a station, I believe - the’re all just buildings holding fire trucks. There is probably a way to mark manned or unmanned with existing tags - but if there isn’t maybe that is something for a fire=* subtag or something.

> Not sure what "safety" is about in this context, can you give a definition or (less preferably) some examples what to include and exclude? (e.g. road maintenance? snow plowing? putting road signs? monitoring stream gauges? analyzing drinking water? homologating vehicles/machinery/(construction/electrical/toys/clothes/...) products/food? Controlling restaurants for hygiene?)

Definition for the landuse:

I chose Civic_safety thinking that it is for  “services that directly protect or safeguard the lives of citizens",  while excluding medical - as Hospitals are well established. 

“Safety" seemed to be the right choice, because I’m not implying emergency versus non-emergency as in  "someone sole my car, so I need to go to the police station to report it.” versus “Someone is stealing my car now, so I need the police here urgently!" That is [should be?] a separate tag. Isn’t that covered by Emergency=*  ? 

Police vs military police:

Similar with Military forces for military purposes - they are not involved with the protection of citizens - but the protection of the state as a whole. A Military police HQ for a force that is actually policing the citizens citizens (as opposed to the military itself) is still just a police station - it’s military roots would show up in the operator or even the name tag, right? an MP office would be on a military base, not downtown next to the city hall or the rec center. That would be a police station [for the citizens] - The fact that they are military or civilian cops are not really pertinent to their mandate to protect and serve the citizenry directly. I have very little experience in Military policing citizens in a non-emergency manner - but A police station is just a police station, right? 

If they were truly military - wouldn’t their facility be treated with landuse=military and an amenity=police_station in it instead? 
Either way, if you feel that such a force is worth being recognized as military or as a policing body, it is easy to describe the building and land through either landuse (=civic_safety or military) and the existing amenity tag.


Police, fire, Lifeguards, Ranger stations(?) snow patrol, Highway patrol, etc *directly* safeguard the lives of citizens.  People who maintain equipment or utilities indirectly do so - the road worker fixing a pothole, or a guy trimming trees also is indirectly safeguarding my life (through accident prevention) - but the people responding to a burglar or a fire at my location is directly safeguarding my well being, as is a lifeguard looking for sharks or saving drowning people. People examining pipes are merely safeguarding investments, reducing liability, or checking the quality of a product, service, or utility. A fire brigade stopping a fire at such a  facility is a whole different matter.

As a [former] computer technician, It is my job to safeguard your computer and It’s data, and indirectly your life making sure your computer doesn’t burn down your house. But I would never consider myself a fireman. I have found stolen equipment, but I would never consider myself the police. 

My friend is an electrical inspector/engineer. He verifies the safety of the electrical equipment at “high” voltages (~6000v). If he screws up, your factory could burn down. But overall, he is safeguarding the productivity of your factory or market, usually by pulling dead animals out of substation panels to get the electricity turned back on and the machines back to stamping out car parts or refrigerating perishables.  Search and rescue people pulling someone out of a river is quite different.

Our jobs would be two of the many that should be listed under a commercial=* subtag to give it a description beyond that it is a non-retail company. maybe a tag like that exists, I’m not sure at the moment, but that’s where I would start looking to describe the myriad of different inspection and maintenance companies in existence. 


I didn’t think of the indirect safety angle until you brought it up, so it those were good questions. Thanks. 


> cheers,
> Martin
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