[Tagging] Various alt_name values?

althio forum althio.forum at gmail.com
Tue Nov 25 13:30:32 UTC 2014


On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 6:20 PM, Lukas Sommer <sommerluk at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think it could be useful to have a clear documentation on the wiki about
> which solution is the preferred one.
>

Oh yes! I would appreciate clear and explicit documentation on this one!


On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 11:51 PM, Tobias Knerr <osm at tobias-knerr.de> wrote:

> On 23.11.2014 19:46, Zecke wrote:
> > No need to do so. The semi-colon is the accepted way to separate multi
> > values in cases where there's no other scheme defined.
> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Semi-colon_value_separator
>
> The semi-colon is not universally accepted, for good reasons. Contrary
> to what you said, it should only be used if it is explicitly defined as
> an option for that particular key. To introduce such a convention to an
> old and widely used set of tags is not easy and requires a broad
> consensus, not a quick wiki page change.


Indeed Tobias the page on Semi-colon_value_separator
<http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Semi-colon_value_separator> itself even
reads:
> In general *avoid ';' separated values whenever possible*.
> Don't use them in your mapping, and don't propose them on the wiki if
there are better ways of representing things.
Zecke I don't understand that as 'accepted' even by default.
I would appreciate clarifications on pages when it should be used, when it
should not be used, and when it is under discussion.


I tried once to tag name and alt_name by myself.
That was before. I was not aware of this problem with the list discussions
in September and now.
I tried to follow any guidelines that I could find on the wiki.
That is to say:
* http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name
** use *name*, *official_name**, alt_name**, **loc_name, **reg_name**, *
*int_name**, **short_name, **:<lg>*
** The scheme 'name' with a lot of different keys enables to give several
names with all kinds of shading
** "alt_name: another name or names by which the feature is known" [note
the plural on names within alt_name]
** What if I am left with several names that should fit in one key only?
(alt_name or old_name or etc)
** *http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Semi-colon_value_separator

*** "In general avoid ';' separated values whenever possible." OK fair
enough.*
*** *alternative approaches: *"**Choose one of the values": *not my
objective I want to add all useful names for Nominatim and the rest
*** *alternative approaches: *"**Split the element**": *not concerned I
have only one feature and several names
*** *even more approaches: *"**consider converting it to a** namespaced
approach**": I can try and see what happens*
* http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Namespace
** "A *namespace* is a prefix or suffix within a key
<http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key>. Namespaces are used (where it is
deemed necessary) to provide a grouping of tags, and a way of separating
this group of tags, avoiding naming clashes and providing a higher level
context to a particular key." And I choose suffix instead of prefix, I
don't know why, it just seemed easier in this case.

So on the one hand, after painful reading of several articles (more or less
conflicting) in the wiki I try the namespaced approach.
On the other hand I read on this list that this not the
[good/correct/implicit/accepted/established] way.


But let us look at a real case to discuss.
Please find the current state of one object, so that we can comment, and
improve on what I have done.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/55503397

amenity arts_centre
name Centre Pompidou
official_name Centre National d'Art et de Culture Georges-Pompidou
short_name:fr CNAC

alt_name Beaubourg;Centre Georges-Pompidou;Centre Beaubourg
alt_name:fr:1 Centre Georges-Pompidou
alt_name:fr:2 Centre Beaubourg
alt_name:fr:3 Beaubourg

wikipedia fr:Centre national d'art et de culture Georges-Pompidou

name:es Centro Pompidou
name:fr Centre Pompidou
name:it Centro Georges Pompidou
name:ja ポンピドゥー・センター
name:ko 조르주_퐁피두_센터
name:no Pompidou-senteret
name:ru Центр_Помпиду
name:zh 龐畢度中心

I don't even know which keys are currently under use by Nominatim and
other data
consumers and how that could evolve in the future.

Sorry for the long post, I hope it helps you understand what it is to start
from scratch and try to follow the guidelines in the wiki.
If we can improve my tags, small win.
If we can improve the scheme, bigger win.
If we can make the documentation clear and explicit, biggest win.

Cheers.

althio
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