[Tagging] Named junctions

[John Eldredge]

The name in this case is for the signal, not the junction. Could you have a 
named signal at a named junction, with different names?

-- 
John F. Eldredge -- john at jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.



On November 6, 2015 2:58:02 AM Andrew Errington <erringtona at gmail.com> wrote:

> We already use junction=yes for named junctions.  Why is another tag needed?
>
> On 06/11/2015, Gerd Petermann <GPetermann_muenchen at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> wow, so the problem is much bigger than I expected.
>>
>> I still think that my suggestion might help to solve the problem.
>>
>> My understanding so far:
>>
>> - In Japan (and maybe other countries),
>>
>> you would prefer to render only those traffic_signals which have a name
>>
>> - Complex junctions often require several nodes with
>> highway=traffic_signals,
>>
>> at least for the routing.
>>
>>
>> My suggestion place=junction  could be used for all junctions,
>>
>> maybe in combination with traffic_signals=yes/no to help the renderer.
>>
>> A special Japanese style would simply ignore unnamed traffic_signals.
>>
>>
>>  Gerd
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> Von: John Willis <johnw at mac.com>
>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. November 2015 23:47
>> An: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
>> Betreff: Re: [Tagging] Named junctions
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Javbw
>> On Nov 6, 2015, at 1:09 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar
>> <seav80 at gmail.com<mailto:seav80 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'd suggest to use a node tagged
>>
>> place=junction
>>
>> with name=* or ref=*
>>
>> for this. What do you think?
>>
>> From what I remember - in Korea they name junctions, and in Japan they
>> actually name the signals themselves.
>> I know that sounds like the same thing, but people to speak and refer to the
>> Signal at the junction, and the name is on the signal, and the iconography
>> used is the signal icon. As there are almost no street names in Japan on
>> tertiary roads and below, spatial navigation is done through counting
>> *unnamed* signals and occasionally using named signals.
>>
>> The big problem traffic_signals_area
>> was trying to solve is the over-rendering of signal icons.
>>
>> Billboards, pamphlets, and now websites use static images of maps with
>> access directions and simplified maps that show how many signals you have to
>> drive through before turning and reaching a destination from a known
>> landmark (highway exit, train station).
>>
>> Here is the access map for a very large park.
>>
>> http://hitachikaihin.jp/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/996e3788561dbe76ffe45257c28c7c25.png
>>
>> Note the line of signals in a row. Those are there to be counted.
>>
>> Because of Japan's very old and extremely convoluted road network, it is
>> usually not obvious where to turn - so people not using GPS directions
>> (actually using a *map*) Rely **very heavily** on accurate and consistent
>> placement of street light icons. And OSM is totally broken in this regard.
>> Every node gets an icon. Depending on the zoom level, there is 0-1-2-3-4 or
>> more icons when just **one** should be rendered. The signal icon is more
>> important that almost all place names.
>>
>> This is something all the Japanese paper maps and online maps follow, and
>> Apple/Google also had to add all the icons properly to be useful *as a map*
>> in Japan.
>>
>> Google Maps of the signals in a row. Note 1 named signal has a name box that
>> doesn't cover the road.
>>
>> https://goo.gl/maps/E1hEzfi3iYF2
>>
>> OSM has no rendered icons.
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/36.3967/140.5927
>> It has a label for the lights rendered, but no icons.
>>
>> Next zoom level - label disappears. So no signals, no labels. Ugh.
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/36.4009/140.5901
>>
>> Now icons - but two of them, with label.
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/36.40107/140.58986
>>
>> Next, 4 icons - no label
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/36.40160/140.58949
>>
>> Finally, at z19, I get 4 icons and a label together.
>>
>> What a horrible job of rendering a single icon with a single label!
>>
>> This is an ****unacceptable situation****  for the Map in Japan. It
>> fundamentally breaks using the map for road navigation for many many map
>> users. and since every other map is better at this fundamental necessity of
>> Japanese maps, it basically makes OSM an unusable choice in Japan (for
>> spatial map usage while driving) and seem unfinished.
>>
>> Traffic_signals_area was an attempt to solve this, but as this isn't an
>> issue in Europe, it was ignored.
>>
>> Javbw.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Labeling the signal area is just icing on the cake of removing all the
>> unneeded icons cluttering the map.
>>
>
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