[Tagging] Please don't think name_1 tags are errors.

Hakuch hakuch at posteo.de
Sun Jan 17 20:55:48 UTC 2016


Hi

On 15.01.2016 23:01, Dave F. wrote:
> On 15/01/2016 16:25, Ralph Aytoun wrote:
>> I object to the continuous use of naming new mappers as a problem.
> 
> Are you sure it's not the design of the editor that's being called out
> as the culprit?

I join this view, Iam not considering the people who learn mapping to be
the problem, but this feature in iD.

On 15/01/2016 16:25, Ralph Aytoun wrote:
> New mappers have a lot to learn. They have enough of a problem just
> learning how to use the tools and finding out what basic tagging is
> without being inundated with error messages telling them they cannot
> save their work because of some technical fault. Let them save their
> work rather than it getting lost or they get so frustrated that they
> give up and walk away.

I know you mean it well, but I think you don't do well when you want to
protect people from learning *very basic principles* of tagging: "Where
there is one keyname, there cant be the same again." And I do really
trust in every "newbie" that this principle is very easy and very fast
learnable.

On 15/01/2016 16:25, Ralph Aytoun wrote:
> And believe me when I say that they are nor learning bad tagging from
> the iD Editor because most new mappers will not understand what just
> happened or that the tag is different, they will just be grateful that
> their work has been saved and they can continue mapping.

I understand, that you want to keep new people in mapping, but I think
it is a bad way to simulate a easy-peasy tagging world. As I mentioned
above, I am sure that people will easily learn that there should be one
only one keyname. I guess that is even easier to learn than letting them
put values that are not consistent. They will be even more frustrated
when they tagged a lot of stuff and wont find it on the map or in
nominatim.
Again, I think leading new people to produce garbage is a very bad way
of motivation. And being happy that people are grateful and continue
wrong mapping is even no way of satisfication.

I find, it is very ok to tell people if something is wrong, even more if
it not possible to save data in the way they want to. But I agree to
find a good way to tell them, not like "something ist wrong with your
tags, please correct" when you click on the save button, thats bullshit.
It should be immediatly when you want to create the same-named tag, and
it should be hyperlinked to a more detailed description of the
principle. It could even be something like "oh you want to create
another name, is the original one wrong? do you want to add one? maybe
one of this fits? if you are not sure, you can use fixme:XXX or you can
use alt_name=XXX"

However, I really dont like the behavior of iD (.developers) to use
their position as beeing the gate between mappers and the database to
produce new tags that has not been accepted in official proposals by the
community. Its like one of the JOSM developers said, when he changed to
the OSM board: He had more influence when he was developing the editor.
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