[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - learner driver

Paul Johnson baloo at ursamundi.org
Tue Jun 28 13:47:06 UTC 2016

On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 7:23 AM, Greg Troxel <gdt at ir.bbn.com> wrote:

> Michael Tsang <miklcct at gmail.com> writes:
> > I agree on the point that mode:learner_driver=* is better, but, however,
> isn't
> > it common sense that learners are not allowed on motorways? Can you give
> me
> > some regions where learners are, by default, allowed on motorways?
> I don't think it's common sense.  The point is to get experience
> driving with someone who knows in the other seat giving you advice.
> People need to get used to being on motorways/interstates also.

Especially in the US where freeways and surface expressways are a big part
of daily life.

> Plus, IMHO driving on motorways (Interstates) is less scary than on
> other roads, both rural undivided highways and in cities.  I find this
> to be the case when driving in the US and also in the UK.  (I'm not
> saying that a UK rule that learners are not allowed on motorways is
> unreasonable, just that it doesn't follow from first principles and
> isn't obvious from having driven there.)

And this is why most surface expressways and almost all interstates permit
bicycles:  Most of them, and especially interstates, have massive hard
shoulders and relatively infrequent and easy to negotiate intersections

> An example of a region is where drivers with a learner's permit are
> allowed on Interstates is Massachusetts:
>   http://www.massrmv.com/LicenseandID/ClassDPermitandLicense.aspx
>   Limitations with a Class D Permit
>   If you are under 18 years of age, you may not drive between the hours of
>   12:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m. unless accompanied by a parent/guardian who is
>   duly licensed in his or her home state and has one (1) year of driving
>   experience. The parent/guardian must occupy the seat next to you. You
>   may not operate a vehicle outside Massachusetts if that state's laws
>   prevent you from legally doing so.

Sounds similar to Oregon, though Oregon has no class D (lowest class is C
and roughly equivalent to Class C in most states).  Back when I was making
some extra cash by teaching new folks how to drive (moonlighting in my
stickshift due to it's cheaply and easily replaced clutch and easy access
to the handbrake from the passenger seat), it wasn't specific to parent or
guardian, just any fully licensed, sober driver over age 18 (which was
great, since I did this from when I was 19 until 22)

>  https://dmv.ny.gov/learner-permit-restrictions
> but they do ban for learners specific scary parkways (trunk, not
> motorway, due to narrow, twisty, and not really having slip roads --
> which is why they are scary) and specific bridges.  There is no
> prohibition on learner drivers on Interstates.  But there are extra
> rules for learners in NYC, including daytime only and dual brake
> controls.

Trunks (surface expressways, parkways) are a weird critter.  I would
generally only challenge my driving students with something like the
Milwaukie Expressway or McLoughlin Boulevard or The Octopus (a massive,
eight way and highly confusing intersection,
http://osm.org/go/WIDPKSC4A--?m=) if I thought they were ready but wanted
to test against something the DMV might test them on.  Even then I felt a
little out of my league the first time I encountered a midwestern one, in
which I was presented with turning left onto a heavily traveled surface
expressway from a stop sign at rush hour (I decided that wasn't viable and
hung a Michigan left even though it added two miles to the trip; unsignaled
intersections that allow the minor road to cross the expressway median just
aren't a thing I recall existing on busy trunks in Oregon).
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