[Tagging] Tagging of Country Names

althio althio.forum at gmail.com
Fri Nov 4 10:30:16 UTC 2016


Hi Sven and list,

Sven Geggus wrote:
> What I consider valid would be the countires name in all of its official langages.

I don't consider it valid.
I prefer the on-the-ground rule, de facto languages, choice by local community.

> So I propose a correction of all country names to names into official langages of
> the respective countries only and to remove all english names.
+
> I think the best would be to strictly stay with the countries official
> languages arguably also separating them by dashes.

I do not approve as a general rule.


> I think we should come up whith a common sense rule what name should usually
contain (hence this discussion) and thus the tagging can be changed by
mappers accordingly.

That is a good approach but unfortunately it may take time and it is
not certain the outcome will suit you (ie help you for your
rendering).
Anyway you still need to contact local mappers to let them know about
the 'new' rule.


> Frankly I don't care that much about the proper name tag itself, but I don't
> think that there is a single valid argument for tagging an english or french
> name in addition to the local one if this langage is not common a particular
> country.
+
> My intention is to remove english names in the generic "name" tag
> in countries where english is neither an official nor otherwise
> important langage to the country in question. I'm well aware of the
> political impact of naming in some places.

And that is not for you to choose the 'common or important languages',
but for the local mappers.


Andy Townsend wrote:
> Simon Poole wrote:
>>
>>   @andy
>> btw the whole is about making easier to express local preference, not
>> harder.
>
> ... which is great, and was exactly what I was worried about. However it
> wasn't the impression that I got from e.g. the comment "the french name has
> to go" upthread - that sounded like someone in "authority" in OSM would try
> and decide what name mappers in a country were allowed to apply to their own
> country, which doesn't sound like the way to go at all.

+1... Sven, I am worried about this part "english/french name has to go".
Was the "english/french name" added by westerners? or chosen by locals
(possibly with extensive local community discussions)?


> The only argument I could think of here ist tagging for the
> renderer.  As I already said, such stuff is making it very difficult to
> render a proper localized map.

A proper localized map is possible with name:<lg> tags.
You are going for something more complicated, name:<rendering-lg> +
name:<local-lg>.


> Andy Townsend wrote:
>> As has already been said this _ought_ to be a job for wikidata.
>
> Thus one would need an additional external database to render a proper map!
> I don't think that this is the way to go in such a simple case.

As an alternative, if you don't like wikidata and external database, I
read in the 'Algerian thread' that we could add a tag for official or
preferred languages for rendering.
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=572165#p572165

To paraphrase, same idea from Simon Poole:
> The real simple solution would be to provide a tag with a list of the
> countries official languages and then allow the renderer to choose from
> them in the cases when you want a non-translated name value (and as said
> leave the name tag empty).
(name tag empty or unused)

And I read here you seem to agree.
> The longer I think about this, the more I come to the conclusion, that
> having an official langage tag as Simon suggested might be the ways to go.
> This way producers of maps can avoid using "name" at all.

-- althio



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