[Tagging] The direction=* tag

Paul Johnson baloo at ursamundi.org
Mon Mar 20 14:39:41 UTC 2017


Since nodes lack direction, but relations do... seems like a stop sign
relation would be ideal, with multiple ways for the "from" role and the
node where it applies as the "to" role, with the actual stop sign locations
as the "device" role, similar to how enforcement is tagged.

On Mar 19, 2017 14:31, "Tod Fitch" <tod at fitchdesign.com> wrote:

> Unfortunately, I’ve not been able to make the Kendzi3D JOSM plug-in work
> for me. I’ll continue to poke at it from time to time as it looks
> intriguing. I did not feel confident in tagging lanes, especially turn
> lanes, until I found the JOSM plug-in that allowed me to visualize and
> check the tagging before committing the changes. This looks like one that
> would allow me to start looking into 3D tagging at some point in the future.
>
> In the meantime, I notice that the direction on the sign in the image is
> not set with a “direction=*” tag but rather with a
> “traffic_sign:direction=*” tag. Taking a look at taginfo, it seems that
> “traffic_sign:forward=*” and “traffic_sign:backward=*” tags have also been
> invented and the usage tag indicates that “stop” is one of the values used.
> The usage for all three is small, but it seems that for traffic control
> devices and signs we have multiple ways that people have tagged:
>
> “direction= forward | backward” [1]
> “traffic_signals:direction = forward | backward” [2]
> “traffic_sign:direction = forward | backward” [3]
> “traffic_sign:forward=*” [4]
> “traffic_sign:backward=*” [5]
> “stop:direction = forward | backward” [6]
> “give_way:direction = forward | backward” [7]
>
> (There are probably other ways of tagging the direction of a sign that
> I’ve not noticed.)
>
> It seems to me that this area could use some thought and, once
> “bikeshedded” enough, simplified and better documented.
>
> I recall seeing places where a one way street has a stop sign where it
> connects with another street and a single pole has a stop sign on one side
> and a wrong way/do not enter sign on the other. That use case shouldn’t
> affect a router which should be obeying the one way tagging, but for
> micro-mapping there wouldn't be a straight forward way to tag it if we use
> “traffic_sign:direction = forward | backward” or “direction = forward |
> backward” as we can’t tell which sign the direction tag is for.
>
> Maybe the “stop:direction = forward | backward” and “give_way:direction =
> forward | backward” would allow micro-mapping with multiple signs on one
> pole. They also follow the example set by the documented
> “traffic_signals:direction = forward | backward” tagging:
>
> “highway = stop”
> “stop:direction = forward”
>
> Follows the meme set by:
>
> “highway = traffic_signals"
> “traffic_signals:direction = forward”
>
> Cheers!
>
>
> [1] https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/direction#values
> [2] https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/traffic_signals%3Adirection
> [3] https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/traffic_sign%3Adirection
> [4] https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/traffic_sign%3Aforward
> [5] https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/traffic_sign%3Abackward
> [6] https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/stop%3Adirection
> [7] https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/give_way%3Adirection
>
> On Mar 17, 2017, at 4:28 PM, yo paseopor <yopaseopor at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  But at present I am pretty sure that map rendering can’t use
>> “direction=forward | backward”. It can (and my rendering does) use the
>> compass points and/or degrees values for rotating icons in the point
>> symbolizer.
>
>
> As you can see Kendzi3D plug-in [1] and a style for JOSM [2] do it with
> forward/backward keys.Others do too.
>
>
> Salut i mapes (Health and maps)
> yopaseopor
>
> [1] http://imgur.com/RFVKLGZ
> [2] http://imgur.com/9tCwVBT
>
> On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 11:24 PM, Tod Fitch <tod at fitchdesign.com> wrote:
>
>> If micro mapping, then the stop sign is usually not in the center of the
>> traveled way (though I have occasionally seen some there). For micro
>> mapping, place a node for the sign where it exists on the side of the road
>> and then use the compass direction to indicate how it is facing. As it is
>> detached from the highway way forward and backward can have no meaning.
>>
>> The “highway=stop | give_way” tag on a node on way might be used by map
>> rendering, which probably doesn’t care if it has forward or backward
>> tagging. I’ve been using Mapnik XML for rendering my maps and I don’t
>> recall the ability to detect the direction of a way. Or even if something
>> that is being rendered by the point symbolizer can tell if the point is on
>> a way. I could be wrong on that. And even if wrong, maybe some rendering
>> tool chain will support that in the future. But at present I am pretty sure
>> that map rendering can’t use “direction=forward | backward”. It can (and my
>> rendering does) use the compass points and/or degrees values for rotating
>> icons in the point symbolizer.
>>
>> I strongly suspect that tagging the stop/give way sign in the middle of
>> the way is for the use of routing and route guidance. It might still be of
>> use by guidance (though I am not sure the “direction=forward | backward”
>> matters much in that case) but what I am hearing is that as
>> implemented/specified now it is not useful for routing. Thus my comment
>> about noise.
>>
>> I have been following the tagging suggested on the wiki [1] and checking
>> the direction of the way in order to determine the value to put on the
>> direction tag is tedious. If it is not being used, I might well forgo the
>> direction tag. Fortunately the same wiki page states direction is only
>> needed if the signs are closely spaced and it is not obvious which
>> intersection/direction the sign is for, so the direction tag in that case
>> is almost always optional per my interpretation of the wiki.
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dstop#Taggi
>> ng_minor_road_stops
>>
>> > On Mar 17, 2017, at 2:47 PM, yo paseopor <yopaseopor at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > I don't agree with this: marking the direction of the traffic sign is
>> not noise, for a driver can be VITAL, also with the meaning of the traffic
>> sign (the main purpose of a traffic sign).
>> > Why? Because in a way with two directions we need to know to what
>> direction traffic sign it is for. It is not the same a road cross with an
>> STOP forward than backward (with micromapping it is not the same one lamp
>> than two)
>> > Put a key like direction is not the best option, because this
>> information can be inside the key itself like traffic_sign:forward or
>> traffic_sign:backward.
>> > Also it is a good thing to say of what side of the way the traffic sign
>> is.
>> > In some countries traffic sign of a side is not the same as the other
>> side specially in streets in a city.
>> > e.g.
>> >
>> > traffic_sign:forward=ES:R2
>> > highway=stop
>> > side=right
>> >
>> > Ok, OSMR do not use that...but other tools uses this information so it
>> is important to keep it at the data.
>> > In a short-term, people like Mapillary or OSC will give us the
>> opportunity (and the data) to map all the traffic signs in a way. Routers
>> and navigation apps should be prepared for that. OSM is nowadays capable of
>> show all this information. Don't make it disappear.
>> >
>> > Salut i mapes (Health and maps)
>> > yopaseopor
>>
>
>
>
>
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