[Tagging] Identifying language regions

marc marc marc_marc_irc at hotmail.com
Tue Apr 24 17:20:12 UTC 2018


your schema is neither simple nor usable for multilangue area
what's the primaryOnTheGroundLang for Brussels ? or Fribourg ?
if I understand you very well, a guy need to travel the city and count 
how many NameOnTheGround is in fr and how many in nl and after he can 
create the metadata. woaw !
and what if 2 langages have the same count ?
because in Brussels all street signs are bilingual.

a KISS schema for boundary look like
language:fr=main or official or designated + language:nl=thesame
or official_language:fr=yes + official_language:nl=yes
or official_language=fr;nl

and it somebody want to include a kind of ground stat or spoken 
language, it's maybe another chanllenge... and have no idea of what kind 
of source you 'll find for that.

Le 24. 04. 18 à 18:56, Imre Samu a écrit :
>> The main problem multilingual map effort is trying to solve is how to calculate the language of the "name" tag. 
> 
> As I understand - We need a "simple metadata" - about the "current 
> mapping rules"  [ https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names ]
> So, We can use this for:
> -  Multilingual Maps
> -  OSM Editors  - checking/validating  character sets, extreme characters
> -  "Localization of name suggestion": 
> https://github.com/osmlab/name-suggestion-index/issues/11
> -  other QA tools  ( osmcha?)
> 
> My biggest problem is the "on the ground" rule:
> /  "The "on the ground" rule remains the method of determining the 
> appropriate value for the name tag. "/
> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes/DWG_2014-06-05_Special_Crimea
> 
> But sometimes reusing this metadata for QA rules is not so simple :
> - " Béla Bartók square in Paris. The “ó” is not valid in French."    see 
> more: https://wiesmann.codiferes.net/wordpress/?p=15187
> 
> 
> *My  pragmatic solution*
> 
> in my mind, this is 2 separated problem:
> - inventing a good metadata for every case ( see 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names  for example: 
> Hong Kong  )
> - storing the metadata  [ as an OSM tag;   in the OsmWiki  ; in the 
> Github(https://github.com/osmlab/....)
> 
> 
> First - We can create a simple metadata -   with the  "Wikidata"-keys on 
> the OSM admin areas
> 
> like  a simple    Wikidata(OSM admin-area) -  primary/secondary language 
> code table
> 
> name_en,        Wikidata,  primaryOnTheGroundLang,    
> secondaryOnTheGroundLang
> Aruba,        Q21203,    nl         ,
> Afghanistan,Q889,      ps
> Angola,        Q916,      pt
> Anguilla,Q25228,    en
> Albania,Q222,      sq
> Åland Islands,Q5689,     sv
> ..
> Crimea,         Q7835,     ru,                        uk
> Russia,         Q159,      ru,
> Ukraine,        Q212,      uk,
> ...
> 
> - If some area overlapping (  "Crimea") - the smaller area has a higher 
> priority
> - We can merge this metadata with the OSM  - and after we have polygons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2018-04-24 15:58 GMT+02:00 Yuri Astrakhan <yuriastrakhan at gmail.com 
> <mailto:yuriastrakhan at gmail.com>>:
> 
>     The main problem multilingual map effort is trying to solve is how
>     to calculate the language of the "name" tag.  Without it, name tag
>     becomes nearly useless.  For example:
> 
>     * An Italian user viewing a feature in China with two tags: "name"
>     and "name:fr".   In this case, "name:fr" tag is preferred because
>     "name" is likely to be in Chinese - not great for an Italian speaker.
>     * Same tags, but the feature is in Italy -- now "name" tag is the
>     better choice because the name is actually in the same language as
>     the reader.
> 
>     Without knowing the language of the "name" tag, we cannot use it as
>     part of the "script matching" - give preference to languages that
>     use the same script as the reader, even if the language is different.
> 
>     On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 12:29 PM, Andy Townsend <ajt1047 at gmail.com
>     <mailto:ajt1047 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>         On 24/04/2018 09:11, Rory McCann wrote:
> 
>             Ireland has 2 official languges (Irish first & then
>             English), but only ~2% of the population speak Irish daily.
>             There are some legal defined regions of Ireland which are
>             supposed to be "Irish speaking areas", but even there Irish
>             is a minority language. So how should that be tagged? (Some
>             day we'll get around to mapping the Gaeltachtaí)
> 
> 
>         Ireland's pretty much a "best case" for this as it does have
>         defined language regions for Irish.  Most places don't.
> 
> 
>             If you want to know the language in a multi-lingual area,
>             why not look at the name, and name:XX tags. If the name
>             value is the same as a name:Z then Z is the language.
> 
> 
>         That won't always work.  You can probably guess the example I'm
>         going to pick next - https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/52241235
>         <https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/52241235> :)
> 
>         For those unaware, the story there is summarised at
>         https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Daingean#Name
>         <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Daingean#Name> .  It's a while
>         since I've been there; not sure how much of a "cause celebre" it
>         is currently.  I've certainly heard people on RTE refer to it as
>         "Dingle / An Daingean" (that's the English name and the commonly
>         used Irish name but not the official Irish name...).
> 
>         Best Regards,
>         Andy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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