[Tagging] Identifying language regions
marc marc
marc_marc_irc at hotmail.com
Tue Apr 24 17:20:12 UTC 2018
your schema is neither simple nor usable for multilangue area
what's the primaryOnTheGroundLang for Brussels ? or Fribourg ?
if I understand you very well, a guy need to travel the city and count
how many NameOnTheGround is in fr and how many in nl and after he can
create the metadata. woaw !
and what if 2 langages have the same count ?
because in Brussels all street signs are bilingual.
a KISS schema for boundary look like
language:fr=main or official or designated + language:nl=thesame
or official_language:fr=yes + official_language:nl=yes
or official_language=fr;nl
and it somebody want to include a kind of ground stat or spoken
language, it's maybe another chanllenge... and have no idea of what kind
of source you 'll find for that.
Le 24. 04. 18 à 18:56, Imre Samu a écrit :
>> The main problem multilingual map effort is trying to solve is how to calculate the language of the "name" tag.
>
> As I understand - We need a "simple metadata" - about the "current
> mapping rules" [ https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names ]
> So, We can use this for:
> - Multilingual Maps
> - OSM Editors - checking/validating character sets, extreme characters
> - "Localization of name suggestion":
> https://github.com/osmlab/name-suggestion-index/issues/11
> - other QA tools ( osmcha?)
>
> My biggest problem is the "on the ground" rule:
> / "The "on the ground" rule remains the method of determining the
> appropriate value for the name tag. "/
> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes/DWG_2014-06-05_Special_Crimea
>
> But sometimes reusing this metadata for QA rules is not so simple :
> - " Béla Bartók square in Paris. The “ó” is not valid in French." see
> more: https://wiesmann.codiferes.net/wordpress/?p=15187
>
>
> *My pragmatic solution*
>
> in my mind, this is 2 separated problem:
> - inventing a good metadata for every case ( see
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names for example:
> Hong Kong )
> - storing the metadata [ as an OSM tag; in the OsmWiki ; in the
> Github(https://github.com/osmlab/....)
>
>
> First - We can create a simple metadata - with the "Wikidata"-keys on
> the OSM admin areas
>
> like a simple Wikidata(OSM admin-area) - primary/secondary language
> code table
>
> name_en, Wikidata, primaryOnTheGroundLang,
> secondaryOnTheGroundLang
> Aruba, Q21203, nl ,
> Afghanistan,Q889, ps
> Angola, Q916, pt
> Anguilla,Q25228, en
> Albania,Q222, sq
> Åland Islands,Q5689, sv
> ..
> Crimea, Q7835, ru, uk
> Russia, Q159, ru,
> Ukraine, Q212, uk,
> ...
>
> - If some area overlapping ( "Crimea") - the smaller area has a higher
> priority
> - We can merge this metadata with the OSM - and after we have polygons.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2018-04-24 15:58 GMT+02:00 Yuri Astrakhan <yuriastrakhan at gmail.com
> <mailto:yuriastrakhan at gmail.com>>:
>
> The main problem multilingual map effort is trying to solve is how
> to calculate the language of the "name" tag. Without it, name tag
> becomes nearly useless. For example:
>
> * An Italian user viewing a feature in China with two tags: "name"
> and "name:fr". In this case, "name:fr" tag is preferred because
> "name" is likely to be in Chinese - not great for an Italian speaker.
> * Same tags, but the feature is in Italy -- now "name" tag is the
> better choice because the name is actually in the same language as
> the reader.
>
> Without knowing the language of the "name" tag, we cannot use it as
> part of the "script matching" - give preference to languages that
> use the same script as the reader, even if the language is different.
>
> On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 12:29 PM, Andy Townsend <ajt1047 at gmail.com
> <mailto:ajt1047 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> On 24/04/2018 09:11, Rory McCann wrote:
>
> Ireland has 2 official languges (Irish first & then
> English), but only ~2% of the population speak Irish daily.
> There are some legal defined regions of Ireland which are
> supposed to be "Irish speaking areas", but even there Irish
> is a minority language. So how should that be tagged? (Some
> day we'll get around to mapping the Gaeltachtaí)
>
>
> Ireland's pretty much a "best case" for this as it does have
> defined language regions for Irish. Most places don't.
>
>
> If you want to know the language in a multi-lingual area,
> why not look at the name, and name:XX tags. If the name
> value is the same as a name:Z then Z is the language.
>
>
> That won't always work. You can probably guess the example I'm
> going to pick next - https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/52241235
> <https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/52241235> :)
>
> For those unaware, the story there is summarised at
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Daingean#Name
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Daingean#Name> . It's a while
> since I've been there; not sure how much of a "cause celebre" it
> is currently. I've certainly heard people on RTE refer to it as
> "Dingle / An Daingean" (that's the English name and the commonly
> used Irish name but not the official Irish name...).
>
> Best Regards,
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
>
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