[Tagging] Documentation issues of PT tagging schemes

Jo winfixit at gmail.com
Sat Aug 4 10:19:04 UTC 2018


Hi Roland,

I made a fresh attempt to explain things as simple as it gets:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Polyglot/Public_transport_proposal_for_simplification

I might expand this to how I see we could extend this tram and metro
mapping. For trains I would add such nodes for each sub section of a
platform, if there are trains (or parts of trains) that use only 'half a
platform', but I realise that is likely to be met with a lot of resistance.

For mapping the millions of bus stops and itineraries around the world, we
need a schema that is as simple as possible (and no simpler, like you
said). Any unnecessary complication/duplication simply doesn't scale.

I read your proposal, and you talk about platform_edges. No need for that
if there is a node for each direction of travel, even if the (separately
mapped) platform is shared in the middle of the railway lines. Such
platform are very likely to have names like platform 2 for one half, and
platform 3 for the other half.

Polyglot

Op wo 25 jul. 2018 om 19:25 schreef Roland Olbricht <roland.olbricht at gmx.de
>:

> Hi,
>
> > What I would like to see is how to map a Public Transport Route in
> > version 3 .. that has the bear minimum of things to have and the rules
> > that make the route valid.
>
> This is where the problem sits; the point of view of what a route is
> vary wildly. Few people are even willing to pinpoint and tell their
> personal definition.
>
> Things that exist under the notion of route:
>
> - Urban bus/tram/subway services (many stops, many departures, route
> taken always or almost always the same, route through the street grid
> practically fixed, often unchanged for years to decades)
>
> - Peak services, special routes to depot, school services (few
> departures, many stops, also many route variants, frequently changing,
> making it impractical to route them all)
>
> - Hail bus services: the bus is promised to serve a certain street and
> stops on hail (many departures, route taken always or almost always the
> same, route through the street grid practically fixed, often unchanged
> for years to decades)
>
> - Urban and regional train lines (many stops, many departures, route and
> platforms fixed). Those routes are often in parts or completely land marks.
>
> - Long distance train lines (many stops, many departures, route and
> platforms may or may not vary, can stop at a different platform of the
> same station for operational reasons)
>
> - Long distance bus services (few stops, few departures, route between
> stops often changing on the fly)
>
> - Ferry lines (often only two stops, completely different
> infrastructure)
>
> Further kinds of routes may exist. For example, some communties use
> virtual metro lines that connect station node to station node. This is
> most often because the communties lack the ressources to map the actual
> underground structures.
>
> I personally map only urban bus/tram/subway services and urban and
> regional train lines (and do not delete other routes). For these
> services it is sane to have marked the stops and the route on the grid.
>
> The route on the grid is straightforward: this is in any PT scheme a
> sequence of way members that together form a continuous trajectory. Hail
> sections get a special role for these members.
>
> The stop part is more tricky. I personally add one element for each stop
> where the bus/train is calling, using the role "platform". The member
> element should have the tag "name" set to ensure meaningful usage and
> pain-free editing of the route.
>
> The minimum required tags on the relation are "ref=<Line Number>",
> somtimes "name=<Name>", and "type=route" + "route=bus" for buses.
>
> Please do not forget that a more detailed explaination fits better on
> the transit list
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
> I would suggest to continue the discussion there, but Ilya has for
> unknown reason fear of the talk-transit list. It makes sense to give him
> an easy opportunity to answer.
>
> I read Ilya's proposal such that he wants to feature the virtual metro
> lines, at the expense of mandating to map hail services as empty
> relations. But it would be better if he tells us himself.
>
> Best regards,
> Roland
>
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>
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