[Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?

Eugene Podshivalov yaugenka at gmail.com
Wed Dec 5 18:02:45 UTC 2018


François,
>
> This is nevertheless not related to the geospacial nor relational database
> type but it's localisation issues.

On one hand you are right, on the other hand how can you call OSM a
database if you cannot perform such simple tasks with it like getting a
list of for example lakes within a specific country? You search for
water=lake but you get results which differ a lot from what is locally
called a "lake".
Is there any approach which resolves this thing?

Regards,
Eugene

ср, 5 дек. 2018 г. в 20:40, François Lacombe <fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com>:

> Thanks Eugene,
>
> That's a good example and I agree with you.
> This is nevertheless not related to the geospacial nor relational database
> type but it's localisation issues.
>
> Then I'm ok with you regarding name tags, it's hard to maintain at world
> scale and is often cluttered with specific local terms
>
> All the best
>
> François
>
> Le mer. 5 déc. 2018 à 18:35, Eugene Podshivalov <yaugenka at gmail.com> a
> écrit :
>
>> Hi François,
>> I guess you come from France, so let's me try to get some example
>> applicable to your location.
>> I do not know much about edicuation system in France but found out from
>> wiki that your school system consists of "ecole maternelle", "ecole
>> elementaire", "college" and "lycee".
>> How do you get all colleges in France from OSM database? amanity=college
>> tag which stands for a higher than university institution will not help you
>> here, will it? You defintely need some other tag for you local
>> categorizaiton of schools or you search by the respective word in the
>> "name" tag but the "name" tag does not always contain a category name.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eugene
>>
>> ср, 5 дек. 2018 г. в 19:32, François Lacombe <fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Hi Eugene,
>>>
>>> I don't get the link between geospatial db or not and the difficulties
>>> regarding the local side of tagging.
>>> The same issues can raise on geospatial db as well don't you ?
>>>
>>> All the best
>>>
>>> François
>>>
>>> Le mer. 5 déc. 2018 à 16:50, Eugene Podshivalov <yaugenka at gmail.com> a
>>> écrit :
>>>
>>>> This email is a forward message of this forum topic
>>>> https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=64704
>>>>
>>>> I guess this topic has been raised may times already but let me add to
>>>> it.
>>>> Right now OSM is a collection of dots and lines with some generic tags
>>>> for rendering them on a map. They do compile into nice maps but does it
>>>> really work when it comes to searching for objects of real life categories?
>>>> Let's look into some examples.
>>>> * place=city/town/village/hamlet/isolated_dwelling stand for
>>>> settlements of some pupulation ranges. But each country has its own
>>>> categorization of settlements which may absolutely differ from the
>>>> suggested gradation.
>>>> * waterway=river/stream are used for natural relatively large or small
>>>> waterways. But the notion of river may differ from country to country and
>>>> they may have a much wider range of categories then just these two ones.
>>>> * amenity=school/university/college have some generic notion of
>>>> secondary, higher and further edicution institutions. But again each
>>>> country has it's own categorization of educational institutions and in some
>>>> cases it even contradicts the suggested tag names, e.g. in Russia they have
>>>> colleges as something intermediate between high school and university.
>>>>
>>>> To wrap it up it is hard to impossible to get objects of some real live
>>>> category from OSM database in order for example to hight light them on a
>>>> map or to list them in search results.
>>>>
>>>> There are two workarounds used right now. The first one is to bind some
>>>> new tags to local categories e.g. school=high_school, school=college. This
>>>> approach is very contradictary because it is recognized only locally and
>>>> may conflict with notations in other countries.
>>>> The second one is to put category name into "name" tag, e.g. "Liberty
>>>> avenue", "Blue lake", "South park". This approach works pretty fine until
>>>> you think of applying it to everything, e.g. "Manchester" would become
>>>> "Manchester city", all shops would become "[name] shop" and will be
>>>> rendered as such on maps or otherwise additional algorithms will need to be
>>>> coded for rederers to decide whether to cut a category name from the
>>>> displayed name or not for each particular country.
>>>>
>>>> I invision the following solution here.
>>>> * First of all, the "name" tag should containt proper name only.
>>>> * Secondly, introduce a new tag for the real life language specific
>>>> category name. I know that "name:prefix/postfix" key was originally
>>>> introduced for another purpose but it can be a candidate here as well. Note
>>>> that in some languages the place of category name relative to the proper
>>>> name matters.
>>>> * Thirdly, in order to make the life of renderers simple, introduce one
>>>> more tag for holding the name which can be displayed on maps as is without
>>>> any modifications, e.g. "display_name". This tag may contain whatever
>>>> content is considered locally appropriate specifically for rendering on
>>>> maps. For example, it may contain proper name with category abbriviation
>>>> like "r. Missisipi" or proper name with category full name like "Liberty
>>>> avenue" or if an object has no proper name but is worth being labeled like
>>>> "police station". Locally agreed upon rules should prevail here and if
>>>> somebody needs another format he is free to utilize "name" and
>>>> "name:prefix" tags the way he likes it.
>>>> If proper name is considered good for rendering without any
>>>> modifications like "Manchester" city then display_name can be missing.
>>>>
>>>> Here are a couple of collective examples:
>>>> * highway=residential + name:ru=Независимости + name:prefix:ru=проспект
>>>> + display_name:ru="пр-т Независимости"
>>>> * waterway=river + name:de=Elbe + name:prefix:de=Fluß (no
>>>> "display_name" tag becase they usually display only proper names of rivers
>>>> on maps in Germany)
>>>> * place=city + name:en=Manchester (no "display_name" tag because it is
>>>> equal to "name", and no "name:prefix" tag if and only if the values in
>>>> "place" tag correspond to the real life settlement categories in US)
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Eugene P
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Tagging mailing list
>>>> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tagging mailing list
>>> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tagging mailing list
>> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/attachments/20181205/f84c4ef9/attachment.html>


More information about the Tagging mailing list