[Tagging] public_transport=platform rendering on osm-carto

osm.tagging at thorsten.engler.id.au osm.tagging at thorsten.engler.id.au
Wed Jun 20 18:02:49 UTC 2018

Your position is simply a total rejection of PTv2 and insistence to continue with the old way of tagging. 


Which makes no sense to me, as minimal valid tagging under PTv2 is actually simpler (one public_transport=platfrom vs. separate highway=bus_stop and highway=platform). 


And it greatly homogenises public transport mapping (highway=bus_stop should be a node beside the road, railway=tram_stop should be a node on the rail. Under PTv2 you always have public_transport=platform beside the road/rail/… and public_transport=stop_position on the road/rail/… and you can map any stop with either or both).



If you are going to destroy correctly tagged PTv2 stops and replace them with the old scheme tagging, I would consider it vandalism. (Though I accept that dual tagging with both schemes might be required until osm carto properly renders PTv2).


From: Jo <winfixit at gmail.com> 
Sent: Thursday, 21 June 2018 03:30
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <tagging at openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Tagging] public_transport=platform rendering on osm-carto


1. I'm not confused.


2. I don't agree that highway=bus_stop nodes next to the ways should be 'UPGRADED' to ways or areas. We should keep those nodes AND add those nodes and ONLY those nodes to the route relations.


3. If there happens to be an actual platform, we can keep mapping those as highway=platform/railway=plattform on a way or area. Those are the ones where I started to remove the public_transport=platform from. highway=platform/railway=plattform is perfectly fine for them.


Op wo 20 jun. 2018 om 19:24 schreef <osm.tagging at thorsten.engler.id.au <mailto:osm.tagging at thorsten.engler.id.au> >:

I fully agree with everything marc said.

But I think Jo's confusion comes primarily from the fact that public_transport=platform replaces BOTH highway=platform AND highway=bus_stop.

So under the old tagging scheme you could have a highway=platform way or area, AND a highway=bus_stop node.

In places where there was only a highway=bus_stop node, this is often now dual tagged with public_transport=platform as well (which is correct).

In places where there was only a highway=platform way/area, this is often now dual tagged with public_transport=platform was well (correct too).

But in places that have both a highway=platform and a highway=bus_stop, dual tagging both with public_transport=platform is wrong. The two should be merged into only a single way/area with public_transport=platform. The problem then is that you can't really dual tag that anymore, because the highway=platform and highway=bus_stop tags are in direct conflict and can't be tagged on the same object.

And because the lack of rendering in osm carto, many people are not going to use PTv2 properly in this case, because they can't dual tag it so that it will properly show up on the map.

The lack of rendering support for public_transport=platform *as a replacement for highway=bus_stop and similar tags* is what prevents widespread adaption of PTv2 and deprecation of the old tagging scheme.

Implementing public_transport=platform rendering purely as a 1:1 replacement of highway/railway=platform, without properly supporting it as a replacement of bus_stop, tram_stop, and so on is not going to fix that issue.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: marc marc <marc_marc_irc at hotmail.com <mailto:marc_marc_irc at hotmail.com> >
> Sent: Thursday, 21 June 2018 02:53
> To: tagging at openstreetmap.org <mailto:tagging at openstreetmap.org> 
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] public_transport=platform rendering on osm-
> carto
> Le 20. 06. 18 à 17:44, Jo a écrit :
> > Actually I have started to remove public_transport=platform from
> > with highway=platform and railway=platform. As far as I am
> concerned
> > public_transport=platform goes on NODES
> sorry I didn't understand why (or maybe yes I prefer to not
> understand) Zverik's propal that you clone to request that
> public_transport=platform as way should be downgraded to a node-
> only HAS FAILED !
> So if another mapper extend the node to better match the geometry
> of the plateform, why are you revert it ?
> yes wiki is ambigous. but for almost (?) all objects the extend
> from a node into a more precise geometry has always been considered
> an improvement, not a mistkae that need to be fixed.
> So the next contributor will probably add the PTv2 tags you deleted.
> > Removing those tags from ways comes from the objection of some
> people
> > that there would be both a way and a platform with the
> > public_transport=platform tag.
> I remember this talk about that on tranport (french-speaking
> transit) mailing when it became apparent that duplicate objects
> were so common in France that they affected stats at a regional
> scale.
> This resulted in a collective work to add missing PTv2 tags, many
> contributors spent many hours for that and fix a lot of mistake.
> Currently the region of french capital is nearly 100% PTv2 and at
> the country scale in france, there is almost no highway=plateform
> tag left that does not also have its PTv2 equivalent.
> Of course one stop in one direction should have :
> - only one plateform per "passenger waiting area" (including all
> variant public_transport=platform highway=platform and
> railway=platform) and/or
> - one stop_position
> having one "passenger waiting area" mapped as a node + as a way + a
> MP like I already see, with tags randomly distributed or duplicated
> between these osm objects that represent the same thing, it is a
> mess....
> and PTv1 tag should of course be put only on one of the same objets.
> If not, you make duplicate objet for the same feature... like
> currently.
> > In other words, the rendering of *=platform on WAYS is just fine
> as it is.
> of course that it is the continuation of Zverik's failed proposal.
> but check current pratice :
> the supremacy of public_transport=platform over highway=platform is
> even clearer if we take into account the duplicate tag 900k for
> public_transport=platform without (highway=platform or
> railway=platform)
> 84k highway=platform + public_transport=platform only 9k
> highway=platform without public_transport=platform the community
> has already twice rejected this unintelligible wish to have a
> PTv2custom with different rules totally useless depending on the
> transport mode.
> PTv2 consists precisely in making things more HOMOGENEOUS.
> So please reconsider your modifications and take into account that
> highway=plateform and public_tramsport=plateform are 2 tags for the
> same concept (a passenger waiting area for a public transport),
> even if the render support only the oldest and less common schema
> for *=platform
> Regards,
> Marc
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