[Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Default Language Format

bkil bkil.hu+Aq at gmail.com
Sat Oct 20 20:21:08 UTC 2018


Excuse me if I didn't make myself clear, English is not my native language.

In OSM the name of a place is usually, but not always the name on the sign.
If the sign only had space for 5 characters, it will in many cases contain
the short_name, not the name. In some cases, a venue would erect multiple
signs, some larger than others, some ever containing a strapline=* as well.
The most reliable method I've found to determine the name of an entity was
from the menu up to now, then comes the registry, the website, the receipt
and only then the signs. Some places don't even have a sign up, others
didn't have the money to replace the sign that advertised old_name=* and
hence left that up. The more names I come across for a given venue the more
fun it is to unify all of those to a handful of name keys!

So when surveying, I never solely enter name tags from signs without going
inside the amenity and asking around and I recommend this practice to other
mappers as well.

Maybe I don't follow fully, but you should definitely not put the name of
the business into operator=* in most cases, please check the wiki what this
key is for:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:operator

Back to the previous example, we have a database that lists both the
operator and the full official name of a venue. It is difficult to mix up
the operator and the venue name, as they rarely resemble each other.
Establishing a company around here has lots of overheads, so people do this
as rarely as possible. It is the norm that during the life cycle of a
company, it opens, closes and renames/rebrands its shops or even moves onto
other domains. Companies are also renamed and retargeted a lot, probably up
to a dozen times on average. Companies purchase brands from each other, etc.

So in the above example, we have:
operator=AmRest Vendéglátó Kft.
name=KFC Gyorsétterem
short_name=KFC (although this is already present in brand=* as mentioned
above, so I omit this)

For example, it's common for people to refer to pubs with short_names.
Also, most pubs around here are operated by private individuals
(entrepreneurs), a few by legal entities/companies. So I'm sure nobody
would mix up operator="John Smith" with name="The Drunken Clam" or
short_name="The Clam".

On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 11:26 AM Martin Koppenhoefer <dieterdreist at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 19. Oct 2018, at 20:14, bkil <bkil.hu+Aq at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > So this should usually be very close to the official name. In a few
> > cases, I have seen that the printer produced old_name. In other cases,
> > everyone knows the place by its short_name and it is the one usually
> > advertised on signs, though the menu, website and receipt usually all
> > include the full name.
>
>
> in OSM the name of the place is usually the one used by the people and on
> the sign, the name of the business is tagged as operator.
> The requirements for receipts differ in national legislation. From the
> receipts I used in Germany and Italy, name as we use in OSM was often
> there, but if the receipt has only the minimum required information, there
> is just the operator name and address (date, goods, price, tax etc), the
> vat identification number is mandatory in Italy but not in Germany (for
> receipts <250eur), although it will usually be there in Germany as well.
> What the law refers to as “name” is actually the operator.
>
> Cheers, Martin
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