[Tagging] 2 meaning for crossing=zebra

Robert Skedgell rob at hubris.org.uk
Fri Oct 26 08:27:57 UTC 2018

On 25/10/18 22:39, marc marc wrote:
> Hello,
> I have a big issue with crossing=zebra.
> it prevent to fill in the other value for crossing like 
> crossing=traffic_signals crossing=uncontrolled
> the wiki [1] said that crossing=zebra is a shortchut for 
> crossing=uncontrolled + crossing_ref=zebra in the UK
> but a lot of zebra also in UK and outside UK have traffic_signals
> and must be tagged with crossing=traffic_signals
> so at the end, crossing=zebra has no meaning... maybe the previous 
> contributor mean crossing=uncontrolled + crossing_ref=zebra
> but maybe he mean only crossing_ref=zebra
> I fix a few week a lot of crossing=zebra crossing_1=traffic_signals
> or crossing=zebra;traffic_signals that show it's an issue.

Do you have any UK examples of zebra crossings with traffic signals?
>From my understanding of UK traffic signs (which include road markings
and signals), this seems rather unlikely.

At a zebra crossing, vehicles must give precedence to pedestrians on the
crossing. No traffic signals are necessary to stop traffic in order for
pedestrians to cross.

It may be the case that there are zebra crossings very close to a
junction with traffic lights, but these are really separate entities and
should be mapped as such.

> a issue was closed in iD [2] some time ago because "the dev dislike 
> crossing_ref" (it is in fact a very ugly name for the tag)
> right now josm [3] is changing preset to drop cossing_ref=zebra
> in favor of crossing=zebra

I agree with the ugliness of crossing_ref=zebra. NOw the wiki has been
updated, I can happily get rid of it in all my edits.
> I am part of a group of a group of mappers working on accessibility
> are planning to open a talk to fix it but the news of the commit flow 
> preceded us
> so my request is : how to avoid again a multi-meaning tag ?
> may/must we separate the type of crossing from the ground marking ?
> in short : move away crossing=zebra in another tag ? if yes
> is crossing_Re so ugly than in the same time another tag need
> to be used for the ground marking ?
> let's avoid the argument of "there are too many cases to fix",
> it doesn't scare me to propose a mass edition once a coherent scheme
> has been found. but having half tools that fill a value with another 
> meaning than other or historical meaning is a big issue for the use
> of the data.
> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:crossing
> [2] https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/4788
> [3] https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/16793
> Regards,
> Marc
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