[Tagging] maxspeed:type vs source:maxspeed // StreetComplete

Thilo Haug OSM thaug at gmx.de
Sat Sep 22 15:00:36 UTC 2018


You just forgot to mention the table would solve this :-)
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Default_speed_limits#The_table

And there should be a link to it on these pages :
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Speed_limits#Country_code.2Fcategory_conversion_table
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxspeed

Perhaps there should also be a new value maxspeed=default,
to express the road's speed limit refers to this table
(where "default" links to the wiki page) ?

Am 22.09.18 um 14:32 schrieb Colin Smale:
>
> Well said, I agree wholeheartedly. A local, anecdotal view is in
> itself not enough to produce a data model that works for everyone.
>
>  
>
>
> On 2018-09-22 14:22, Tobias Zwick wrote:
>
>> Tagging an implicit speed limit explicitly for example in town with
>> maxspeed=50 is straightforward enough for Germany. It seems natural that
>> no specialist knowledge is required for that kind of thing. For a German.
>>
>> But let's look at some other countries for the default urban speed limit.
>>
>> Spain (ES):
>> maxspeed=50
>> maxspeed:hazmat=40
>>
>> Chile (CL):
>> maxspeed=60
>> maxspeed:bus=50
>> maxspeed:hgv=50
>>
>> Hungary (HR):
>> maxspeed=50
>> maxspeed:tricycle=40
>>
>> Kerala in India (IN-KL):
>> maxspeed=50
>> maxspeed:conditional=40 @ (weight > 7.5)
>> maxspeed:trailer=40
>> maxspeed:bus_articulated=40
>> maxspeed:hgv_articulated=40
>> maxspeed:bus:conditional=40 @ (weight > 7.5)
>> maxspeed:hgv:conditional=40 @ (weight > 7.5)
>> maxspeed:tricycle=30
>>
>> Punjab in India (IN-PB):
>> maxspeed=50
>> maxspeed:trailer=35
>> maxspeed:bus_articulated=30
>> maxspeed:hgv_articulated=30
>> maxspeed:hgv=45
>> maxspeed:hgv:conditional=40 @ (weight > 6)
>> maxspeed:conditional=40 @ (weight > 6)
>> maxspeed:trailer:conditional=30 @ (weight > 6)
>> maxspeed:motorcycle=35
>> maxspeed:goods=45
>> maxspeed:goods:conditional=40 @ (weight > 6)
>>
>> Malta (MT):
>> maxspeed=50
>> maxspeed:bus=40
>> maxspeed:hgv=30
>> maxspeed:goods=40
>> maxspeed:goods:conditional=30 @ (weight > 3)
>>
>> Poland (PL):
>> maxspeed=50
>> maxspeed:conditional=60 @ (23:00-05:00)
>>
>> Zambia (ZM):
>> maxspeed=50
>> maxspeed:conditional=40 @ (weight > 2.275)
>> maxspeed:trailer=40
>> maxspeed:hgv=40
>>
>> Because the maxspeed tag applies to all vehicles except overridden for a
>> specific vehicle type or a conditional, specifying only maxspeed=50 in
>> any of the above cases has to be considered wrong or at least
>> incomplete. In other words, the tags you see above would need to be
>> added in the case the speed limit is given explicitly. It is not so
>> straightforward then anymore.
>>
>> So, maybe not for Germany, but as you see, in other places, this *is*
>> specialist knowledge. No regular car driver in Punjab will be able to
>> enumerate all these maxspeed rules. And, taking a less extreme example,
>> I think the Polish OSM contributors wouldn't want to add this
>> maxspeed:conditional=60 @ (23:00-05:00) to every single unsigned street
>> in urban areas.
>>
>> Also, note this is only the urban speed limit, trust me, the default
>> speed limit "for all other roads" (=rural) can be much more complex.
>>
>> Actually, don't trust me, see for yourself in the document I link all
>> the time in the hope people would read it:
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Default_speed_limits
>>
>> We can not get to any results or any progress on the matter of default
>> speed limits (or for any topic, for that matter) if everyone just keeps
>> arguing out of his best knowledge about his home region or country only.
>>
>> "It works for me" is simply not good enough for a global project.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Tobias
>>
>> On 22/09/2018 01:03, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> sent from a phone
>>>
>>>> On 19. Sep 2018, at 21:16, Tobias Zwick <osm at westnordost.de
>>>> <mailto:osm at westnordost.de>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This is a good argument against tagging an explicit maxspeed=X when
>>>> there is actually no speed limit sign around (X is what the OSM mapper
>>>> by his knowledge about the law thinks should be the default limit
>>>> here).
>>>
>>>
>>> everything that you map will be according to your understanding of
>>> it, I cannot see a good argument for not tagging implicit limits,
>>> even more as there is judgement needed based on the situation
>>> (something humans can do much better than computers). Every holder
>>> of a driving license should have the requisites to recognize the
>>> speed limit on a given piece of road in their local area, so it
>>> doesn't require specialist knowledge.
>>>
>>> We already have a reliable way to distinguish implicit from explicit
>>> limits (we even have several of them), if you want to treat them
>>> differently in your app, you can do it.
>>>
>>> There actually is a speed limit on most roads, including those
>>> without explicit signage. Omitting it will leave us in the situation
>>> that it really becomes unclear whether there is no sign or nobody
>>> has bothered to enter it.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Martin
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>>
>>
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