[Tagging] Draft Proposal: Default Langauge Format
Christoph Hormann
osm at imagico.de
Wed Sep 26 15:53:54 UTC 2018
On Wednesday 26 September 2018, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 26.09.2018 16:14, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> > Also in Germany we have features with no German name (most notably
> > probably in regions with significant minority languages but also
> > for example some English shop names, Italian restaurant names etc.)
>
> You are not *really* advocating that when passign an Italian
> restaurant called "O sole mio" I am expected to tag this with name:it
> and not give it a proper name tag, are you? Because then I'll
> promptly point you to a series of places that have a name the
> language of which is not discernible...
Yes, indicating that the name of an Italian restaurant in Germany is in
Italian can be fairly useful - for example you might want to design an
app that tells me (as a German or also for example to a Japanese)
what "O sole mio" actually means - and to do that you have to know it
is Italian. Or you might want to create a map with transliterated
names in some non-Latin script that has different transliteration rules
for different European languages. Also you might want to know that the
name of a Korean Restaurant in Germany is actually in Korean and not in
Japanese or Chinese (yes, pretty rare scenario for sure but that's not
the point).
Note nothing terribly bad would happen for most applications if someone
would incorrectly tag an Italian restaurant name as a German name of
course.
Names in a non-discernible language have so far not been discussed. I
would need to see some examples for this to form an opinion on the
matter.
> > The whole point of a concept like the one proposed here is to have
> > a unified system that transparently covers all cases
>
> Yes. The unified system goes as follows:
>
> "If the default language of the smallest admin boundary enclosing
> your feature is xx, treat any name tag you encounter as if it was a
> name:xx tag."
That would change the meaning of the name tag which is currently "the
locally used name or names in some combination" into something
different. This seems very unlikely to happen for a tag with such
widespread use. What you seem to be saying is that this already
happens to be the meaning of the name tag in Germany for >90 percent of
the names so you don't want the inconvenience of changing it for either
the few percent where it is not or to ensure a common tagging system
with the rest of the world where this is often much more widely not the
case.
I see your point but as said this would defeat the whole purpose of the
idea and would further reduce the chances of it getting widely
implemented. Because data users generally satisfied with 90 percent
solutions would just ignore it and since this is the vast majority of
data users nothing would happen effectively. The idea behind the
proposed concept is to create a real solution for the naming problem in
OSM. It would require everyone to adjust to it but it would also mean
everyone in the end has a 100 percent solution.
I don't have the illusion that it is very likely that this will happen -
as already said the obstacles are high and >60 million name tags in OSM
create an enormeous amount of inertia. But this does not diminish the
idea behind it and it does not change the fact that this (at least so
far - i would be glad to learn about other ideas i failed to see) is
the only type of approach that solves all known name representation
problems in OSM.
--
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/
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