[Tagging] Rethinking Map Features

Marc Gemis marc.gemis at gmail.com
Tue Aug 6 03:10:44 UTC 2019


and what if I do not agree with the English text. I saw the example
for addr:street in your movie.
The description now says you have to add addr:postal_code. This is not
true for countries whare postal code boundaries are mapped. I do agree
that this is needed in countries that use ZIP codes though. How do we
solve such issues (before they get translated in too many languagues)
?

regards

m.

On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 4:00 PM Joseph Eisenberg
<joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks, I've got it now.
>
> The problem with the wikibase data item "labels": if you go to add the
> description in another language for a recently created wiki page, the
> top left of the page has a very large, gray text heading like "No
> Label Defined" (but in Indonesian, or Spanish, etc), which suggests
> that something is missing.
>
> I suspect this happens because the English "label" field may not have
> been created in the data item?
>
> Also, when adding the description, the next field to the left is the
> blank label field, with grayed-out text "No Label Found". It's quite
> tempting to fill this in. Do we really want wiki users to feel they
> should add translations for the "key" and "value" of each tag?
>
> On 8/5/19, Yuri Astrakhan <yuriastrakhan at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Joseph, you don't need to use preferences - just click the language
> > switcher at the very top of the page, and you only need to switch to
> > Indonesian and back once -- the interface will always offer both choices to
> > fill out.  Please see the video, and let me know if what you see is
> > different. You might be using mobile version of the site?
> >
> > Filling it out labels in every language is a bit silly - there are
> > thousands of languages, why would we want to store identical information in
> > every one of them, when the system automatically does fallback to English?
> > I could create some sort of a javascript gadget that hides the label column
> > when the item type is a key/value/relation/relation role (multilingual
> > labels are still useful for other item types), but some people have already
> > added some alternative language-specific labels, essentially localizing
> > keys - not sure if we should just hide those.  BTW, if anyone wants to hack
> > on it (I'm looking at you Minh :)), it would be awesome!  Or at least we
> > should maybe give a warning when user tries to add a label identical to
> > English?
> >
> > Every wiki page, including the data items have a "history" tab at the top
> > that will show every edit done to that page.
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 12:17 PM Joseph Eisenberg
> > <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks, yes, changing the language under “preferences” for the wiki
> >> works,
> >> though it’s a little annoying.
> >>
> >> You should set the label field for all languages to the key=value or
> >> remove this field and display the key=value at the top of the page
> >> anyway.
> >> It’s quite distracting Now.
> >>
> >> Is there a way to see the wikibase data item history? One big concern I
> >> have is that it won’t be easy to see when something is changed. Can you
> >> get
> >> notified if someone changes a description?
> >>
> >> Joseph
> >>
> >> On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 1:05 AM Yuri Astrakhan <yuriastrakhan at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> P.S. I made a short video on how to add descriptions and translations
> >>>
> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI1NDD4MtC4
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 11:56 AM Yuri Astrakhan <yuriastrakhan at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Joseph, before you click "edit description", change your language at
> >>>> the
> >>>> top of the wiki page (make sure you are logged in.  Also, if you change
> >>>> the
> >>>> language a few times to the ones you know, e.g. to Indonesian, to
> >>>> Spanish,
> >>>> and then to English, I think interface will always offer you to enter
> >>>> description in the last few you had picked.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for adding translations!
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 11:40 AM Joseph Eisenberg <
> >>>> joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> You're right, I was a little confused. Almost all the features on Map
> >>>>> Features have a wiki page (and those that don't should get a page or
> >>>>> more likely be removed), so I understand that they have an OSM
> >>>>> wikibase entry, now, and creating the data item isn't an issue.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But I still can't figure out how to add description in another
> >>>>> language?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I tried to get the Indonesian translation by:
> >>>>> 1) Open the English wiki page (eg from the link on Map Features in
> >>>>> this
> >>>>> case)
> >>>>> 2) Click on the little pencil to edit the OSM wikibase data item
> >>>>> (which I can't see, because I have images disabled, but I just hunt
> >>>>> around...)
> >>>>> 3) Click on "edit" next to description
> >>>>> 4) Click "all entered languages" - wait, how do I add Indonesian?
> >>>>> ?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Maybe I don't see Indonesian because I'm using a satellite internet
> >>>>> connection from Australia and I haven't edited Indonesian before. I
> >>>>> try clicking on "Configure" next to "In more languages"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I don't see Indonesian there either. So perhaps I have to make a new
> >>>>> wikibase entry for my language? Unfortunately I don't see a link to
> >>>>> make a new wikibase item.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ok, let's try again with Spanish (Español), that's on the list...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I still can't figure it out. How do I add a description in another
> >>>>> language?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Fortunately I can just make a stub wiki page by:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 1) Open the English language page
> >>>>> 2) Click on edit
> >>>>> 3) Copy the url, add "id:" in front of the page name
> >>>>> 4) Copy and paste the ValueDescription / KeyDescription box content
> >>>>> 5) Edit the description to Indonesian
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It looks like that will still be fewer clicks and fewer mouse strokes
> >>>>> than editing the OSM wikibase data items, and has the benefit of
> >>>>> creating a visible wiki page rather than just editing an obscure data
> >>>>> item.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Joseph
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 8/4/19, Yuri Astrakhan <yuriastrakhan at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> > Joseph, could you clarify what you mean by "Map Features entry" ?
> >>>>> > If
> >>>>> you
> >>>>> > only refer to keys/tags/relations/relation roles, than those things
> >>>>> are
> >>>>> > automatically created -- an editor only needs to translate them.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > I do agree that if we want to store more diverse data items, we need
> >>>>> > specialized UI, at least for the initial item creation. Luckily,
> >>>>> there is a
> >>>>> > large Wikidata community that has already done many such custom UIs.
> >>>>> For
> >>>>> > example, Wikidata now stores language data (all lexems), and there
> >>>>> > is
> >>>>> a
> >>>>> > community-created tool to add such words --
> >>>>> > https://tools.wmflabs.org/lexeme-forms/  (I'm not sure if this tool
> >>>>> checks
> >>>>> > for duplicates, please check first if you want to add new data).
> >>>>> There are
> >>>>> > many other tools we can model after.  Best thing -- those tools
> >>>>> > don't
> >>>>> have
> >>>>> > to be part of the wiki, but can reside anywhere else, and could be
> >>>>> > in
> >>>>> pure
> >>>>> > client-side JavaScript.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 2:05 AM Joseph Eisenberg
> >>>>> > <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com>
> >>>>> > wrote:
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >> So far, I've found it very difficult to create and edit new
> >>>>> >> wikibase
> >>>>> >> entries. I don't think it will be easier for Indonesian mappers to
> >>>>> >> create a wikibase entry for every Map Features entry, rather than
> >>>>> >> creating a stub page with a description.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> The advantage of translating wiki pages for each features is that
> >>>>> then
> >>>>> >> there is a human-readable page which can be updated and expanded
> >>>>> >> over
> >>>>> >> time, and also it's clear where the list of feature descriptions
> >>>>> >> are
> >>>>> >> coming from.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> If you want everyone to create wikibase entries instead, there
> >>>>> >> needs
> >>>>> >> to be a much easier, friendlier interface, available in all
> >>>>> languages,
> >>>>> >> and I think such a major change should be discussed and be
> >>>>> implemented
> >>>>> >> only if there is consensus that this would be a clear improvement
> >>>>> >> for
> >>>>> >> most language communities.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>
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