[Tagging] Rethinking Map Features

Tod Fitch tod at fitchfamily.org
Tue Aug 6 03:33:57 UTC 2019


Requiring postal codes on addresses makes no sense even in countries that use ZIP codes. When I walk down a street collecting house numbers I have no indication of the ZIP code of each building. If you require ZIP codes then I am forced into an import situation rather than a field survey.

Cheers!
Tod


On August 6, 2019 3:10:44 AM UTC, Marc Gemis <marc.gemis at gmail.com> wrote:
>and what if I do not agree with the English text. I saw the example
>for addr:street in your movie.
>The description now says you have to add addr:postal_code. This is not
>true for countries whare postal code boundaries are mapped. I do agree
>that this is needed in countries that use ZIP codes though. How do we
>solve such issues (before they get translated in too many languagues)
>?
>
>regards
>
>m.
>
>On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 4:00 PM Joseph Eisenberg
><joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, I've got it now.
>>
>> The problem with the wikibase data item "labels": if you go to add
>the
>> description in another language for a recently created wiki page, the
>> top left of the page has a very large, gray text heading like "No
>> Label Defined" (but in Indonesian, or Spanish, etc), which suggests
>> that something is missing.
>>
>> I suspect this happens because the English "label" field may not have
>> been created in the data item?
>>
>> Also, when adding the description, the next field to the left is the
>> blank label field, with grayed-out text "No Label Found". It's quite
>> tempting to fill this in. Do we really want wiki users to feel they
>> should add translations for the "key" and "value" of each tag?
>>
>> On 8/5/19, Yuri Astrakhan <yuriastrakhan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Joseph, you don't need to use preferences - just click the language
>> > switcher at the very top of the page, and you only need to switch
>to
>> > Indonesian and back once -- the interface will always offer both
>choices to
>> > fill out.  Please see the video, and let me know if what you see is
>> > different. You might be using mobile version of the site?
>> >
>> > Filling it out labels in every language is a bit silly - there are
>> > thousands of languages, why would we want to store identical
>information in
>> > every one of them, when the system automatically does fallback to
>English?
>> > I could create some sort of a javascript gadget that hides the
>label column
>> > when the item type is a key/value/relation/relation role
>(multilingual
>> > labels are still useful for other item types), but some people have
>already
>> > added some alternative language-specific labels, essentially
>localizing
>> > keys - not sure if we should just hide those.  BTW, if anyone wants
>to hack
>> > on it (I'm looking at you Minh :)), it would be awesome!  Or at
>least we
>> > should maybe give a warning when user tries to add a label
>identical to
>> > English?
>> >
>> > Every wiki page, including the data items have a "history" tab at
>the top
>> > that will show every edit done to that page.
>> >
>> > On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 12:17 PM Joseph Eisenberg
>> > <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Thanks, yes, changing the language under “preferences” for the
>wiki
>> >> works,
>> >> though it’s a little annoying.
>> >>
>> >> You should set the label field for all languages to the key=value
>or
>> >> remove this field and display the key=value at the top of the page
>> >> anyway.
>> >> It’s quite distracting Now.
>> >>
>> >> Is there a way to see the wikibase data item history? One big
>concern I
>> >> have is that it won’t be easy to see when something is changed.
>Can you
>> >> get
>> >> notified if someone changes a description?
>> >>
>> >> Joseph
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 1:05 AM Yuri Astrakhan
><yuriastrakhan at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> P.S. I made a short video on how to add descriptions and
>translations
>> >>>
>> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI1NDD4MtC4
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 11:56 AM Yuri Astrakhan
><yuriastrakhan at gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Joseph, before you click "edit description", change your
>language at
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> top of the wiki page (make sure you are logged in.  Also, if you
>change
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> language a few times to the ones you know, e.g. to Indonesian,
>to
>> >>>> Spanish,
>> >>>> and then to English, I think interface will always offer you to
>enter
>> >>>> description in the last few you had picked.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thanks for adding translations!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 11:40 AM Joseph Eisenberg <
>> >>>> joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> You're right, I was a little confused. Almost all the features
>on Map
>> >>>>> Features have a wiki page (and those that don't should get a
>page or
>> >>>>> more likely be removed), so I understand that they have an OSM
>> >>>>> wikibase entry, now, and creating the data item isn't an issue.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> But I still can't figure out how to add description in another
>> >>>>> language?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I tried to get the Indonesian translation by:
>> >>>>> 1) Open the English wiki page (eg from the link on Map Features
>in
>> >>>>> this
>> >>>>> case)
>> >>>>> 2) Click on the little pencil to edit the OSM wikibase data
>item
>> >>>>> (which I can't see, because I have images disabled, but I just
>hunt
>> >>>>> around...)
>> >>>>> 3) Click on "edit" next to description
>> >>>>> 4) Click "all entered languages" - wait, how do I add
>Indonesian?
>> >>>>> ?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Maybe I don't see Indonesian because I'm using a satellite
>internet
>> >>>>> connection from Australia and I haven't edited Indonesian
>before. I
>> >>>>> try clicking on "Configure" next to "In more languages"
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I don't see Indonesian there either. So perhaps I have to make
>a new
>> >>>>> wikibase entry for my language? Unfortunately I don't see a
>link to
>> >>>>> make a new wikibase item.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Ok, let's try again with Spanish (Español), that's on the
>list...
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I still can't figure it out. How do I add a description in
>another
>> >>>>> language?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Fortunately I can just make a stub wiki page by:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 1) Open the English language page
>> >>>>> 2) Click on edit
>> >>>>> 3) Copy the url, add "id:" in front of the page name
>> >>>>> 4) Copy and paste the ValueDescription / KeyDescription box
>content
>> >>>>> 5) Edit the description to Indonesian
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> It looks like that will still be fewer clicks and fewer mouse
>strokes
>> >>>>> than editing the OSM wikibase data items, and has the benefit
>of
>> >>>>> creating a visible wiki page rather than just editing an
>obscure data
>> >>>>> item.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Joseph
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On 8/4/19, Yuri Astrakhan <yuriastrakhan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>> > Joseph, could you clarify what you mean by "Map Features
>entry" ?
>> >>>>> > If
>> >>>>> you
>> >>>>> > only refer to keys/tags/relations/relation roles, than those
>things
>> >>>>> are
>> >>>>> > automatically created -- an editor only needs to translate
>them.
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > I do agree that if we want to store more diverse data items,
>we need
>> >>>>> > specialized UI, at least for the initial item creation.
>Luckily,
>> >>>>> there is a
>> >>>>> > large Wikidata community that has already done many such
>custom UIs.
>> >>>>> For
>> >>>>> > example, Wikidata now stores language data (all lexems), and
>there
>> >>>>> > is
>> >>>>> a
>> >>>>> > community-created tool to add such words --
>> >>>>> > https://tools.wmflabs.org/lexeme-forms/  (I'm not sure if
>this tool
>> >>>>> checks
>> >>>>> > for duplicates, please check first if you want to add new
>data).
>> >>>>> There are
>> >>>>> > many other tools we can model after.  Best thing -- those
>tools
>> >>>>> > don't
>> >>>>> have
>> >>>>> > to be part of the wiki, but can reside anywhere else, and
>could be
>> >>>>> > in
>> >>>>> pure
>> >>>>> > client-side JavaScript.
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 2:05 AM Joseph Eisenberg
>> >>>>> > <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com>
>> >>>>> > wrote:
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> >> So far, I've found it very difficult to create and edit new
>> >>>>> >> wikibase
>> >>>>> >> entries. I don't think it will be easier for Indonesian
>mappers to
>> >>>>> >> create a wikibase entry for every Map Features entry, rather
>than
>> >>>>> >> creating a stub page with a description.
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >> The advantage of translating wiki pages for each features is
>that
>> >>>>> then
>> >>>>> >> there is a human-readable page which can be updated and
>expanded
>> >>>>> >> over
>> >>>>> >> time, and also it's clear where the list of feature
>descriptions
>> >>>>> >> are
>> >>>>> >> coming from.
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >> If you want everyone to create wikibase entries instead,
>there
>> >>>>> >> needs
>> >>>>> >> to be a much easier, friendlier interface, available in all
>> >>>>> languages,
>> >>>>> >> and I think such a major change should be discussed and be
>> >>>>> implemented
>> >>>>> >> only if there is consensus that this would be a clear
>improvement
>> >>>>> >> for
>> >>>>> >> most language communities.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> Tagging mailing list
>> >>>>> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
>> >>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Tagging mailing list
>> >>> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
>> >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>> >>>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Tagging mailing list
>> >> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
>> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tagging mailing list
>> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
>_______________________________________________
>Tagging mailing list
>Tagging at openstreetmap.org
>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

-- 
Sent from my phone, please excuse my brevity.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/attachments/20190806/4f16eb9c/attachment-0001.html>


More information about the Tagging mailing list